I never did succeed in finishing "Agents Under Fire", so maybe your idea would motivate me! At any rate, I'd love to be a fly on the wall for any such discussion.

I suppose I will be visiting here now that my comments no longer seem to be permissable at UD. (Under the new administration encouraging vigorous factual debate and all.) Anyhow, this has been a great thread so I wanted to play as well:

Meditations Aurelius
The Firmament of Time: Eiseley
The End of History and the last man Fukuyama
The Varieties of Religious Experience William James
Collected Poems of T.S. Eliot
The Idiot & The Brothers Karamasov Dostoevsky
Memory, Dreams, Reflections Jung
Plato, Aquinas, Hume, Locke, Spinoza (various pieces)
Feynman (just about everything)
A Short History of Ethics, After Virtue MacIntyre
Meditations Descartes

It is interesting, seeing my own list jotted down, that I do not feel I have been particularly influenced by many works concerning biology. (This considering I recently completed my doctorate in genetics.) Most of what I would think of as my formative reading–by the criteria that it permanently changed my perspective on things–were of a philosophical or sociological persuasion. Being raised as I was, surrounded by "tangled banks," I suppose I had little cause to rely on texts in order to fuel my fascination with nature. Nature was thrust upon me–particularly the biting and stinging parts. I do recall the odd book or two that kept drawing me back repeatedly before I was old enough to read. There were, for example, the terribly outdated encyclopedias with images of dinosaurs and trilobytes… What is the deal with children and dinosaurs? And probably to my intellectual detriment, I developed a peculiar fascination with Jung during my highschool years. I have ever since regretted that alchemy is no longer regarded a respectable vocation. At least not in the circles I travel in.

You forgot Burying ID forever:A Consilience of HowTos by Mikey Gene . It's ok to toot your own horn.

p.s. where is Mike Gene's list??

I can only think of two at the moment:

Bees and Busstops

The author is a well known bee observer who studies bees from behind the protective screen of the glass wall of various bus stops. I especially liked the way the author came up with names for the various bees and really felt his pain when he wrote about the terrible fate of little Buzzbee.

Intelligent Design and 911

This was a very different book that painted a chilling and disturbing account of how the Wedge Document is linked with the controlled demolition of the Twin Towers. The author makes a convincing case that the reason the terrorists commonly wear masks is because we'd recognize Behe and Johnson if they didn't. The Wedge is much more sinister than people think and I really appreciated the author's stirring call for action at the end. The forward by Richard Dawkins is also very good.

Really taught me the value of argument and debate, as opposed to fighting, although I do fight at times unfortunately, but hey I'm human. Really there's no winner or loser, there's just more questions to think about and thats always good. Learned things about morality, the greater good, etc. Some good Christian apologetics here as well.

The Selfish Gene - Richard Dawkins

He outlines a useful and predictive scientific tool that we can use to learn things about our biotic world.

The Anthropic Cosmological Principle - John D. Barrow, Frank J. Tipler, and John A. Wheeler

Some of these coincidences just blow my mind.

Evolution: A Theory In Crisis - Michael Denton

The thing I always remember about this book is his description of the cell, sounded like a futurist describing new technology.

Darwin's Black Box - Michael Behe

Uhh yeah.

The Silver Surfer comics

Very philosophical series and even romantic at times. That silver bastard contemplated just about everything.

Okeydokey:

My Family and Other Animals, Durrell
As I mentioned, Gerald Durrell was my childhood hero. The book is a hilarious look at the education of a young naturalist. His devastating descriptions of his eccentric family are also worth the price

Evolutionary Biology Futuyma
Influential in my rejection of Young Earth creationism.

The Lantern Bearers Suttcliff.
This is my favorite of Suttcliff's novels, many of which influenced my interest in ancient and medieval history. The novel is technically a children's book, but it holds up well to re-reading as an adult. As a pimply adolescent, I really didn't understand the relationship between the protagonist, Aquila, and his wife Ness.

Mere Christianity Lewis
Read about the same time as the Futuyma text. Part of my claiming my parent's religion for myself. Everyone knows this one, so it probably doesn't need a link.

The Politics of Jesus, Yoder
Arguing with this book has changed my thinking re: Christian pacifism and the role of the church in society.

p.p.s. it would be helpful if people who gave a list would be willing to summarize, or perhaps to quote from a text or two on their list, that which contributes to their approach to creation, evolution and ID or Telic Thoughts"¦perhaps another thread

Good idea.

Systematic Theology, Vol. 1, Paul Tillich

This is the best example of systematic theology I have found. The first thing that Tillich does is explicity define his method, prominent among which is his "method of correlation" which states that theology should be an "answering" theology relative to the existential questions asked. He also embraces and affirms a dialog with all of human experience including critiques from science, other world religions, culture, etc. He insists on the need for what he calls the "protestant principal" where there is a constant and therapeutic "protest" against current theology. This is how theology should be done.

The Shape of Ancient Thought, Thomas McEvilley

This is a remarkable book that traces both the details of Western and Eastern ancient thought and their influence on each other. McEvilley who was fluent in both ancient Greek and Sanskrit makes a strong case that much in early Greek thought (Thales, Permenides, Anaxamides, Heraclitus, Plato, etc.) can be attributed to the influence of the early Indian philosophies while later in the Hellenistic period the influence flowed the other way to India. If one wants to get a flavor for early thinking in both the East and West and see how it relates to subsequent thought, this is the book.

Stages of Thought, Michael Horace Barnes
In the Presence of Mystery, Michael Horace Barnes

These two books offer a very insightful exploration of the phenomenon of religion and how its relates to culture and personal search. Barnes correlates religious thinking with the various stages of cultural structure and development. He utilizes Piaget's cognitive categories and examines how cultural stages like preliteracy, literacy, organized agriculture, migration to cities, the formation of hierarchial societies, etc. had their effect on religious sentiment.

The History of Religious Ideas, Mircea Eliade

The three volumes are similar to Barnes' in looking at the phenomenon of religion but deals with the details of individual religious movements dating from early hominids to modern times.

Philosophers speak of God, Charles Hartshorne, William Reese

A great compendium of essays on how philosophers have approached the idea of God. A great starting point for further study.

In Whom We Live and Move and Have our Being, Philip Clayton

A series of essays on the various approaches to panentheism.

The Writings of William James, William James, John J. McDermott

William James is probably one of the most quoted thinkers of all time. This is a good compilation of his works.

The Tacit Mode, Michael Polanyi's Postmodern Philosophy, Jerry Gill

A collection and analysis of Michael Polanyi's philosophy. In my view Polanyi presents a therapeutic balance between modern and postmodern thought. His essays on the tacit mode conceptualization offer a convincing defense of the role of intution in forming concepts and beliefs.

The Courage to Be, Paul Tillich

A profound book on accepting one's limitations both personally and epistemologically while still facing life with courage and faith.

Descartes' Error, Antonio Damasio

This book really changed my view of rationality and the mind. It forces one to affirm our embodiment and personal emotional history to understand how we think and act.

A Different Universe, Robert Laughlin

Laughlin is a Nobel laureate in physics and claims that science must abandon its view that reductionism can provide a complete picture of the world. He sees science (even the physical sciences) as shifting towards explorations of organization (emergence) instead of probing further into fundamental reality. (BTW: He also offers a searing criticism of Darwinism as an antitheory.)

Darwin's Black Box, Michael Behe

We all know about this one.

The Sweet Patootie Doll is about a poor girl who makes a doll out of a sweet potato and loves it better than any fancy store-bought doll. This book was awarded to my brother when he graduated from kindergarten because his best friend was a blind boy. We all (5 of us) loved that book, but my brother never did figure out why in the world he deserved a "prize" just because his best friend was blind. That was a life-lesson for us all right there.

A Chocolate Moose for Dinner was my children's favorite book. It makes great fun of words with double sound-meanings, and illustrates how a child might imagine the scenario when Mom tells Dad they're having chocolate mousse for dinner and such (I always loved the 'undertoe' illustration). Great for synesthetes.

People of the Lie has the subtitle "Toward a Psychology of Evil" and explores a psychiatrist's experience with the personality disorder of Malignant Narcissism - which he has come to understand as simply evil people being evil. Most of whom don't seek help unless forced to by getting caught doing evil, and who can't be cured (but sometimes can be made to behave in socially acceptable ways). Chief giveaway is the web of lies they spin.

The Mystic Vision is a collection of papers submitted to the Eranos Society (Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell, et. al.) yearbooks on the subject of Mystic Vision. These are explorations of archetypes in the context of what Huxley called the "perennial philosophy" - the commonalities of human spiritual experience.

Beyond the Post-Modern Mind is a series of lectures Smith has given related to the "perennial philosophy" in the context of post-modernism and its deconstruction of metaphysics. The best message is how damaging this deconstruction has been to human society and collective human endeavors (like education).

The Nature and Destiny of Man is a 2-volume collection of lectures given by theologian Reinhold Niebuhr at Union in the 1930s and 40s. These address the rise of Nazi statism before and during WW-II, and then following the war addresses what lessons should be learned in a Christian context from the horrors the world ignored when the holocaust could have been prevented. Niebuhr is my favorite theologian for his sheer depth and logical abilities.

Everything else on my list are scientific, practical, or psychological subjects of interest to me, these being the ones that taught me the most about the subjects.

An un-exhaustive list, posted for whatever, soon-to-be-departing reason:

The Lord of the Rings "“ J.R. Tolkien
Orthodoxy "“ G.K. Chesterton
Understanding Media "“ Marshall McLuhan
The Prophet "“ Khalil Gibran
"The Wager" "“ Anton Chekhov (http://www.classicreader.com/read.php/sid.6/bookid.240/ - or for a better English translation, http://www.hutch.demon.co.uk/p...)
Atlas Shrugged "“ Ayn Rand (Alice Rosenbaum)
The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism "“ Max Weber
The Souls of Black Folk "“ W.E.B. Dubois
The Confessions "“ St. Augustine
"The Dream of a Ridiculous Man" "“ Fyodor Dostoevsky (http://www.kiosek.com/dostoevsky/library/ridiculousman.txt)
The Way of the Pilgrim "“ Unknown (Dennis Billy)
The Consolation of Philosophy "“ Boethius

*Nothing from an ID author, and only a single born-in-America author (though tempted to include the Selected Poems of T.S. Eliot)

p.s. where is Mike Gene's list??
p.p.s. it would be helpful if people who gave a list would be willing to summarize, or perhaps to quote from a text or two on their list, that which contributes to their approach to creation, evolution and ID or Telic Thoughts"¦perhaps another thread