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	<title>Comments on: Darwinism&#039;s Last Stand, Parsimony</title>
	<atom:link href="http://telicthoughts.com/darwinisms-last-stand-parsimony/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://telicthoughts.com/darwinisms-last-stand-parsimony/</link>
	<description>An independent blog about intelligent design</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dane Parker</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/darwinisms-last-stand-parsimony/#comment-575</link>
		<dc:creator>Dane Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=135#comment-575</guid>
		<description>Aagcobb:
&lt;blockquote&gt;In fact, there is no reason in principle why every observable phenomenon could not be intentionally caused by the same invisible inhuman intellligence you speculate causes the diversity of life on earth.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
If Cob is trying to explain a failing in ID reasoning by saying: 'if an inhuman, invisible intelligence (aka: God -- or something like it) can be invoked to explain ID than why not suggest that it is the force behind literally everything else in the universe,' then he has just committed a false dilemma which is characteristic of people who actually don't understand ID hardly at all (which is kinda funny since he visits at least the ARN message board &lt;em&gt;all the time&lt;/em&gt; -- so you'd think he'd know better).  In any case it is the same fallicious arguement that Pennock tried to throw at Johnson (,Phillip E.) when he essentially argued that if you permitted the supernatural into the courtroom (Johnson's arena), that the defence can claim literally anything. 
Well, suprise-suprise, Pennock missed the boat.  ID isn't about invoking the supernatural (even from the Christian-ID perspective), its about invoking design, PERIOD, nothing more nothing less.  One can say what the want about the unscientific-ness of the supernatural, but design is a whole 'nother thing because unlike the supernatural, design is something that everyone deals with everyday, and thus it is indeed objective and empirical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aagcobb:</p>
<blockquote><p>In fact, there is no reason in principle why every observable phenomenon could not be intentionally caused by the same invisible inhuman intellligence you speculate causes the diversity of life on earth.</p></blockquote>
<p>If Cob is trying to explain a failing in ID reasoning by saying: &#039;if an inhuman, invisible intelligence (aka: God &#8212; or something like it) can be invoked to explain ID than why not suggest that it is the force behind literally everything else in the universe,&#039; then he has just committed a false dilemma which is characteristic of people who actually don&#039;t understand ID hardly at all (which is kinda funny since he visits at least the ARN message board <em>all the time</em> &#8212; so you&#039;d think he&#039;d know better).  In any case it is the same fallicious arguement that Pennock tried to throw at Johnson (,Phillip E.) when he essentially argued that if you permitted the supernatural into the courtroom (Johnson&#039;s arena), that the defence can claim literally anything.<br />
Well, suprise-suprise, Pennock missed the boat.  ID isn&#039;t about invoking the supernatural (even from the Christian-ID perspective), its about invoking design, PERIOD, nothing more nothing less.  One can say what the want about the unscientific-ness of the supernatural, but design is a whole &#039;nother thing because unlike the supernatural, design is something that everyone deals with everyday, and thus it is indeed objective and empirical.</p>
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		<title>By: ariel</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/darwinisms-last-stand-parsimony/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>ariel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=135#comment-573</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite="Aagcobb"&gt;The problem with your argument is that you pretend that it only applies to mainstream evolutionary theory.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

'Mainstream evolutionary theory' was the subject at hand.  I don't think he was pretending; but he was being intentionally specific.  It becomes increasingly difficult to write an essay about &lt;i&gt;everything&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="Aagcobb"><p>The problem with your argument is that you pretend that it only applies to mainstream evolutionary theory.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#039;Mainstream evolutionary theory&#039; was the subject at hand.  I don&#039;t think he was pretending; but he was being intentionally specific.  It becomes increasingly difficult to write an essay about <i>everything</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Petermann</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/darwinisms-last-stand-parsimony/#comment-572</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Petermann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=135#comment-572</guid>
		<description>Aagcobb:&lt;blockquote&gt;The problem with your argument is that you pretend that it only applies to mainstream evolutionary theory. In fact, there is no reason in principle why every observable phenomenon could not be intentionally caused by the same invisible inhuman intellligence you speculate causes the diversity of life on earth.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes in principal every observable event could be intentional. So?  I don't follow your point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aagcobb:<br />
<blockquote>The problem with your argument is that you pretend that it only applies to mainstream evolutionary theory. In fact, there is no reason in principle why every observable phenomenon could not be intentionally caused by the same invisible inhuman intellligence you speculate causes the diversity of life on earth.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes in principal every observable event could be intentional. So?  I don&#039;t follow your point.</p>
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		<title>By: Aagcobb</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/darwinisms-last-stand-parsimony/#comment-570</link>
		<dc:creator>Aagcobb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=135#comment-570</guid>
		<description>The problem with your argument is that you pretend that it only applies to mainstream evolutionary theory.  In fact, there is no reason in principle why every observable phenomenon could not be intentionally caused by the same invisible inhuman intellligence you speculate causes the diversity of life on earth. If ID can't develop a theory incorporating the ID which makes more accurate predictions than mainstream evolutionary theory, then the hypothesis is of no more use than speculating about an ID in any other field. Here is a link to a good article on The Panda's Thumb concerning the proper application of Occam's Razor:
http://www.pandasthumb.org/pt-archives/001115.html#more</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with your argument is that you pretend that it only applies to mainstream evolutionary theory.  In fact, there is no reason in principle why every observable phenomenon could not be intentionally caused by the same invisible inhuman intellligence you speculate causes the diversity of life on earth. If ID can&#039;t develop a theory incorporating the ID which makes more accurate predictions than mainstream evolutionary theory, then the hypothesis is of no more use than speculating about an ID in any other field. Here is a link to a good article on The Panda&#039;s Thumb concerning the proper application of Occam&#039;s Razor:<br />
<a href="http://www.pandasthumb.org/pt-archives/001115.html#more" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.pandasthumb.org/pt-archives/001115.html#more'>http://www.pandasthumb.org/pt-...</a></p>
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		<title>By: Exile From Groggs</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/darwinisms-last-stand-parsimony/#comment-569</link>
		<dc:creator>Exile From Groggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=135#comment-569</guid>
		<description>bipod: Isn't that just design with what we might consider to be an intelligent cosmos? Or if the cosmos isn't intelligent, don't we simply have to add a level of indirection, and assume that the fact that, since the cosmos came into being and has a real, fundamental purpose, then whatever caused the cosmos had to impose that intelligence?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bipod: Isn&#039;t that just design with what we might consider to be an intelligent cosmos? Or if the cosmos isn&#039;t intelligent, don&#039;t we simply have to add a level of indirection, and assume that the fact that, since the cosmos came into being and has a real, fundamental purpose, then whatever caused the cosmos had to impose that intelligence?</p>
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		<title>By: bipod</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/darwinisms-last-stand-parsimony/#comment-566</link>
		<dc:creator>bipod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=135#comment-566</guid>
		<description>Exile From Groggs...you miss at least one viable alternative to supernatural design: natural teleology.  Such teleology was pervasive among the Greeks and Stoics (Greek and Roman).  Under this view, nature itself is purposive and the purpose is real/fundamental as opposed to mere psychological projection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exile From Groggs&#8230;you miss at least one viable alternative to supernatural design: natural teleology.  Such teleology was pervasive among the Greeks and Stoics (Greek and Roman).  Under this view, nature itself is purposive and the purpose is real/fundamental as opposed to mere psychological projection.</p>
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		<title>By: Exile From Groggs</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/darwinisms-last-stand-parsimony/#comment-563</link>
		<dc:creator>Exile From Groggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=135#comment-563</guid>
		<description>And the alternatives to supernatural design are hardly parsimonious! Either an infinite number of other (undetectable) universes, or a (hitherto undetectable) intelligent race elsewhere in the universe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the alternatives to supernatural design are hardly parsimonious! Either an infinite number of other (undetectable) universes, or a (hitherto undetectable) intelligent race elsewhere in the universe.</p>
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