Comments on: Extreme Evolution http://telicthoughts.com/extreme-evolution/ An independent blog about intelligent design Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:05:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: MikeGene http://telicthoughts.com/extreme-evolution/#comment-2979 MikeGene Mon, 19 Sep 2005 03:47:41 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=275#comment-2979 AdR, Good point. Reductive evolution is what can lock two previously independent entities into one. And since it's easier to lose than to gain, the relationship becomes long-term. AdR,

Good point. Reductive evolution is what can lock two previously independent entities into one. And since it's easier to lose than to gain, the relationship becomes long-term.

]]> By: AdR http://telicthoughts.com/extreme-evolution/#comment-2937 AdR Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:25:29 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=275#comment-2937 <blockquote>This would then allow us to predict that cell-level symbiotic relationships have the inherent potential to fall into flux of reductive evolution.</blockquote> Hi Mike, have you considered the possibility that the symbiotic relationships that we see now were actually the direct result of reductive evolution? Or that reductive evolution is a prerequisite for long-term symbiotic relationships. Say, for instance, that we start with an independent genome that is able to generate its own membrane. It could contain all the house-keeping genes, but also all the machinery to generate a lipid bilayer, and enzymes for energy metabolism. If you would now create a subset of the genome with the lipid-generating enzymes and the ATP-generating enzymes, but not the house-keeping genes, you could have created a sort of mitochondrium. If the 'host' would have lost the ATP generating enzymes in the process, it you would effectively have created a mutually obligatory symbiotic relationship. An early separation of the potentially harmful energy production functionality (free radicals, waste products etc.) could have been a prequisite for complex life.

This would then allow us to predict that cell-level symbiotic relationships have the inherent potential to fall into flux of reductive evolution.

Hi Mike, have you considered the possibility that the symbiotic relationships that we see now were actually the direct result of reductive evolution? Or that reductive evolution is a prerequisite for long-term symbiotic relationships.

Say, for instance, that we start with an independent genome that is able to generate its own membrane. It could contain all the house-keeping genes, but also all the machinery to generate a lipid bilayer, and enzymes for energy metabolism. If you would now create a subset of the genome with the lipid-generating enzymes and the ATP-generating enzymes, but not the house-keeping genes, you could have created a sort of mitochondrium. If the 'host' would have lost the ATP generating enzymes in the process, it you would effectively have created a mutually obligatory symbiotic relationship.

An early separation of the potentially harmful energy production functionality (free radicals, waste products etc.) could have been a prequisite for complex life.

]]> By: MikeGene http://telicthoughts.com/extreme-evolution/#comment-2917 MikeGene Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:22:33 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=275#comment-2917 Joe: <blockquote>Can the process be reversed? Can we take the derived species and evolve another "higher class" species?</blockquote> Another good question. It looks like a once a species has been caught in the currents of reductive evolution, it is very difiicult to escape. Joe:
Can the process be reversed? Can we take the derived species and evolve another "higher class" species?

Another good question. It looks like a once a species has been caught in the currents of reductive evolution, it is very difiicult to escape.

]]> By: MikeGene http://telicthoughts.com/extreme-evolution/#comment-2916 MikeGene Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:19:38 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=275#comment-2916 Good question. Let me chew on it. Good question. Let me chew on it.

]]> By: Salvador T. Cordova http://telicthoughts.com/extreme-evolution/#comment-2904 Salvador T. Cordova Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:39:05 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=275#comment-2904 Mike, Would Prion's be candidates as well? Sal Mike,

Would Prion's be candidates as well?

Sal

]]> By: Joe G http://telicthoughts.com/extreme-evolution/#comment-2901 Joe G Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:14:12 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=275#comment-2901 Does anyone remember the song "2525" It predicts our <i>de</i>volution/ "reductive evolution" ala the organisms Mike discusses. But anyway- practical use- could we use this to (medically) predict a populations evolutionary path therefore allowing us to meet it head on, as well as driving it in that direction we (artificially via drugs) chose? 2nd thought- What does this do to the notion the first life was "simple" IOW does the required specified complexity of the alleged first population(s) bolster the design inference? I would also like to point out that "evolution by subtraction" (reductive evolution) is also used to get insects from brine shrimp. IOW it isn't limited to single-celled populations. Can the process be reversed? Can we take the <i>derived</i> species and <i>evolve</i> another "higher class" species? Does anyone remember the song "2525" It predicts our devolution/ "reductive evolution" ala the organisms Mike discusses.

But anyway- practical use- could we use this to (medically) predict a populations evolutionary path therefore allowing us to meet it head on, as well as driving it in that direction we (artificially via drugs) chose?

2nd thought- What does this do to the notion the first life was "simple" IOW does the required specified complexity of the alleged first population(s) bolster the design inference?

I would also like to point out that "evolution by subtraction" (reductive evolution) is also used to get insects from brine shrimp. IOW it isn't limited to single-celled populations.

Can the process be reversed? Can we take the derived species and evolve another "higher class" species?

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