Comments on: Gonzalez: The controversy over ID at ISU http://telicthoughts.com/gonzalez-the-controversy-over-id-at-isu/ An independent blog about intelligent design Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:12:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: daveb http://telicthoughts.com/gonzalez-the-controversy-over-id-at-isu/#comment-3197 daveb Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:05:45 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=291#comment-3197 I wonder if Avalos et al have considered how this makes the whole scientific/academic community look. One can only hope that some responsible scientists, particularly those who may disagree with Gonzalez, speak out in his defense. I wonder if Avalos et al have considered how this makes the whole scientific/academic community look. One can only hope that some responsible scientists, particularly those who may disagree with Gonzalez, speak out in his defense.

]]> By: MikeGene http://telicthoughts.com/gonzalez-the-controversy-over-id-at-isu/#comment-3165 MikeGene Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:42:22 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=291#comment-3165 Those who want to get ahead of the game should pay close attention to Avalos and his opposition to Gonzalez. Many people have noted above that Gonzalez's hypothesis is fairly mild. Indeed, only a wingnut would label it as "anti-evolution." Furthermore, as Gonzalez notes, he has "neither taught nor advocated that ID be taught at ISU." Thus, what you can see is that this dispute is NOT about evolution and it is NOT about teaching ID. The critics would like to hypnotize you into thinking those are the Issues, but Avalos helps to break that spell. So what IS it that drives Avalos in his frenzied attacks against Gonzalez? Those who want to get ahead of the game should pay close attention to Avalos and his opposition to Gonzalez. Many people have noted above that Gonzalez's hypothesis is fairly mild. Indeed, only a wingnut would label it as "anti-evolution." Furthermore, as Gonzalez notes, he has "neither taught nor advocated that ID be taught at ISU." Thus, what you can see is that this dispute is NOT about evolution and it is NOT about teaching ID. The critics would like to hypnotize you into thinking those are the Issues, but Avalos helps to break that spell. So what IS it that drives Avalos in his frenzied attacks against Gonzalez?

]]> By: MikeGene http://telicthoughts.com/gonzalez-the-controversy-over-id-at-isu/#comment-3164 MikeGene Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:41:09 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=291#comment-3164 I have one disagreement with Gonzalez. He refers to Avalos as an "atheist." This simply means someone who goes about their life "without God." Avalos is clearly obsessed with religion and God, thus religion and God are constantly on his mind. In fact, he nurses this crackpot "theory" that religion is the cause of all violence and thus must be eliminated. Given Avalos' obsession with opposing religion in multiple arenas, it would be more accurate to label him an <strong>anti-theist</strong>. I have one disagreement with Gonzalez. He refers to Avalos as an "atheist." This simply means someone who goes about their life "without God." Avalos is clearly obsessed with religion and God, thus religion and God are constantly on his mind. In fact, he nurses this crackpot "theory" that religion is the cause of all violence and thus must be eliminated. Given Avalos' obsession with opposing religion in multiple arenas, it would be more accurate to label him an anti-theist.

]]> By: Intelligent Design :: Guillermo Gonzales :: September :: 2005 http://telicthoughts.com/gonzalez-the-controversy-over-id-at-isu/#comment-3163 Intelligent Design :: Guillermo Gonzales :: September :: 2005 Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:11:01 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=291#comment-3163 [...] . Et par ateistiske kolleger lancerede en kampagne imod ham for nogle måneder siden. Læs her om hans beretning om, hvad der sker, og her er et nyligt eksempel på den smæde, han bliver udsat f [...] [...] . Et par ateistiske kolleger lancerede en kampagne imod ham for nogle måneder siden. Læs her om hans beretning om, hvad der sker, og her er et nyligt eksempel på den smæde, han bliver udsat f [...]

]]> By: Doug http://telicthoughts.com/gonzalez-the-controversy-over-id-at-isu/#comment-3161 Doug Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:15:06 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=291#comment-3161 It's nice to see Dr. Gonzalez responding on this site to the criticism he has been receiving. I've read the book and watched the DVD and I couldn't find anything so inflamatory that would lead Dr. Avalos to go on this crusade. He's obviously entitled to his opinion, but his manner in presenting it is awkward. I've read so much about Dr. Gonzalez's supposed latent agenda it's nauseating. As uninterested as I am in one's personal agenda (whether it is or isn't one that is guided primarily by the evidence they are observing honestly---because how are you going to determine if it's the former or the latter), I'd have to say that I find Dr. Avalos's response(behavior) a bit more peculiar than Dr. Gonzalez. It's nice to see Dr. Gonzalez responding on this site to the criticism he has been receiving.
I've read the book and watched the DVD and I couldn't find anything so inflamatory that would lead Dr. Avalos to go on this crusade. He's obviously entitled to his opinion, but his manner in presenting it is awkward. I've read so much about Dr. Gonzalez's supposed latent agenda it's nauseating. As uninterested as I am in one's personal agenda (whether it is or isn't one that is guided primarily by the evidence they are observing honestly—because how are you going to determine if it's the former or the latter), I'd have to say that I find Dr. Avalos's response(behavior) a bit more peculiar than Dr. Gonzalez.

]]> By: Teleological Blog » The Good Report of Guillermo Gonzalez, author of “The Privileged Planet” http://telicthoughts.com/gonzalez-the-controversy-over-id-at-isu/#comment-3160 Teleological Blog » The Good Report of Guillermo Gonzalez, author of “The Privileged Planet” Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:07:11 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=291#comment-3160 [...] ed Planet” Filed under: Intelligent Design — fdocc @ 9:07 am Today Guillermo Gonzalez wrote: “Things may look pretty bad for me right now, but there have also been some pos [...] [...] ed Planet" Filed under: Intelligent Design — fdocc @ 9:07 am Today Guillermo Gonzalez wrote: "Things may look pretty bad for me right now, but there have also been some pos [...]

]]> By: Joe G http://telicthoughts.com/gonzalez-the-controversy-over-id-at-isu/#comment-3159 Joe G Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:00:22 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=291#comment-3159 This sort of thing had to be expected. It always seems to happen. Once it is seen that the data is solid they have to go after the person(s) who brought forth the data. Personally I would love to see someone (attempt to) explain the data gathered by GG et al., via unintelligent, blind/ undirected processes. Wouldn't that be a scientific dead-end? I mean what else can you say once you determined we are the result of cosmic collisions and atomic-level accidents? How does one reconstruct random events? Can science tell me about my "quick-pick" lottery numbers? Except to say they were generated by a random-number-generator with a non-repeating number filter? Academic freedom only exists if you follow the "mainstream". "You are free to infer anything you want as long as it agrees with our inference." This sort of thing had to be expected. It always seems to happen. Once it is seen that the data is solid they have to go after the person(s) who brought forth the data.

Personally I would love to see someone (attempt to) explain the data gathered by GG et al., via unintelligent, blind/ undirected processes.

Wouldn't that be a scientific dead-end? I mean what else can you say once you determined we are the result of cosmic collisions and atomic-level accidents? How does one reconstruct random events? Can science tell me about my "quick-pick" lottery numbers? Except to say they were generated by a random-number-generator with a non-repeating number filter?

Academic freedom only exists if you follow the "mainstream".

"You are free to infer anything you want as long as it agrees with our inference."

]]> By: Plump-DJ http://telicthoughts.com/gonzalez-the-controversy-over-id-at-isu/#comment-3157 Plump-DJ Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:13:34 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/?p=291#comment-3157 Having just read "The Privileged Planet" I might say it's a fairly mild argument to design and not very threatening to any hard nosed athiests. Avalos and Co look to be very frightened and seem not to be at all driven by "rational thought" or "Free thinking". I could understand if the arguments presented were poor and without empirical basis but they're clearly not. I also find it interesting that a so called professor would consider the belief that design is a real part of the cosmos being on par with belief in astrology. What shallow thinking do we see here? Someone needs to get philosophical on her "ass"! :-) I personally suspect Avalos and Co smell the beginnings of a power struggle that is attacking the comfortable naturalism that seems to dominate academia and which they exist in. I feel many atheist's (like Avalos) find solace in "academia" where common thought seems to be that science has revelaed a world without design and that if you believe in design it's for "soft" "emotive" "personal" reaons as oppsoed to "hard" "scientific" or "factual" reasons. Having just read "The Privileged Planet" I might say it's a fairly mild argument to design and not very threatening to any hard nosed athiests. Avalos and Co look to be very frightened and seem not to be at all driven by "rational thought" or "Free thinking". I could understand if the arguments presented were poor and without empirical basis but they're clearly not.

I also find it interesting that a so called professor would consider the belief that design is a real part of the cosmos being on par with belief in astrology. What shallow thinking do we see here? Someone needs to get philosophical on her "ass"! :-)

I personally suspect Avalos and Co smell the beginnings of a power struggle that is attacking the comfortable naturalism that seems to dominate academia and which they exist in. I feel many atheist's (like Avalos) find solace in "academia" where common thought seems to be that science has revelaed a world without design and that if you believe in design it's for "soft" "emotive" "personal" reaons as oppsoed to "hard" "scientific" or "factual" reasons.

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