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	<title>Comments on: More on Beckwith and Baylor</title>
	<atom:link href="http://telicthoughts.com/more-on-beckwith-and-baylor/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://telicthoughts.com/more-on-beckwith-and-baylor/</link>
	<description>An independent blog about intelligent design</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: MikeGene</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/more-on-beckwith-and-baylor/#comment-10214</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeGene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 03:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=614#comment-10214</guid>
		<description>Hi derwood,

I'm not suggesting that anything should replace it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi derwood,</p>
<p>I&#039;m not suggesting that anything should replace it.</p>
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		<title>By: derwood</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/more-on-beckwith-and-baylor/#comment-10169</link>
		<dc:creator>derwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=614#comment-10169</guid>
		<description>"The faith in peer review takes another hit. "

What do you suggest replace it?

Coin toss?

Internet discussion board posts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;The faith in peer review takes another hit. &#034;</p>
<p>What do you suggest replace it?</p>
<p>Coin toss?</p>
<p>Internet discussion board posts?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Aagcobb</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/more-on-beckwith-and-baylor/#comment-10120</link>
		<dc:creator>Aagcobb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=614#comment-10120</guid>
		<description>Hi, Mike,

&lt;blockquote&gt;Often spitting out the deserving and rewarding the undeserving. Too arbritrary and subjective.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You're right.  &lt;a href="http://tinyurl.com/zj3jp" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; is an article about how George Mason University took advantage of the prejudices of other universities to build a world class economics department (not to mention a final four basketball team).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Mike,</p>
<blockquote><p>Often spitting out the deserving and rewarding the undeserving. Too arbritrary and subjective.</p></blockquote>
<p>You&#039;re right.  <a href="http://tinyurl.com/zj3jp" rel="nofollow">here</a> is an article about how George Mason University took advantage of the prejudices of other universities to build a world class economics department (not to mention a final four basketball team).</p>
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		<title>By: Krauze</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/more-on-beckwith-and-baylor/#comment-10117</link>
		<dc:creator>Krauze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=614#comment-10117</guid>
		<description>Hi Mike,

That's a good observation. Why don't you give it a post of its own, instead of hiding it down here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mike,</p>
<p>That&#039;s a good observation. Why don&#039;t you give it a post of its own, instead of hiding it down here?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Aagcobb</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/more-on-beckwith-and-baylor/#comment-10116</link>
		<dc:creator>Aagcobb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=614#comment-10116</guid>
		<description>Hi MikeGene,

&lt;blockquote&gt;So why was Beckwith denied tenure?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don't know, Mike.  As Myers said, &lt;blockquote&gt;it is nearly impossible to speculate on what's going on in tenure committees - he could have been denied tenure on the whim of some old fart with a grudge&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In my personal opinion, making disingenuous arguments in favor of teaching discredited, creationist anti-evolutionary arguments in public school science classrooms would be a pretty good reason to deny someone tenure, but I have no idea to what extent, if any, that was considered by the tenure committee.  For all I know, they just didn't like him because Sloan brought him in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi MikeGene,</p>
<blockquote><p>So why was Beckwith denied tenure?</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#039;t know, Mike.  As Myers said,<br />
<blockquote>it is nearly impossible to speculate on what&#039;s going on in tenure committees - he could have been denied tenure on the whim of some old fart with a grudge</p></blockquote>
<p>In my personal opinion, making disingenuous arguments in favor of teaching discredited, creationist anti-evolutionary arguments in public school science classrooms would be a pretty good reason to deny someone tenure, but I have no idea to what extent, if any, that was considered by the tenure committee.  For all I know, they just didn&#039;t like him because Sloan brought him in.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeGene</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/more-on-beckwith-and-baylor/#comment-10114</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeGene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=614#comment-10114</guid>
		<description>An interesting perspective on this issue has emerged.  Tenure can be viewed as the most detailed and systematic example of peer review known in academia.  And it's a peer review decision that not only shapes the direction and focus of academia, but it can inflict real-world pain and suffering on another human being.  Yet despite this, both Brayton and Myers are on basic agreement about something: 

According to Brayton:

&lt;blockquote&gt;This is a struggle over theological and political positions at a private Baptist university. Had Sloan and his backers won the power struggles, things would have turned out differently.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

According to Myers:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Tenure is a brutal, evil machine that puts everyone through a hellish torture, and often spits out the deserving and rewards the undeserving. Do not ever judge someone by whether they have got tenure or not"”it's too arbitrary for that, and often represents a kind of insubstantial and subjective matching or mismatching between a person and an institution.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Theological and political struggles.  Outcomes dependent on the world views of higher ups.  Often spitting out the deserving and rewarding the undeserving.  Too arbritrary and subjective.  

The faith in peer review takes another hit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting perspective on this issue has emerged.  Tenure can be viewed as the most detailed and systematic example of peer review known in academia.  And it&#039;s a peer review decision that not only shapes the direction and focus of academia, but it can inflict real-world pain and suffering on another human being.  Yet despite this, both Brayton and Myers are on basic agreement about something: </p>
<p>According to Brayton:</p>
<blockquote><p>This is a struggle over theological and political positions at a private Baptist university. Had Sloan and his backers won the power struggles, things would have turned out differently.</p></blockquote>
<p>According to Myers:</p>
<blockquote><p>Tenure is a brutal, evil machine that puts everyone through a hellish torture, and often spits out the deserving and rewards the undeserving. Do not ever judge someone by whether they have got tenure or not&#034;”it&#039;s too arbitrary for that, and often represents a kind of insubstantial and subjective matching or mismatching between a person and an institution.</p></blockquote>
<p>Theological and political struggles.  Outcomes dependent on the world views of higher ups.  Often spitting out the deserving and rewarding the undeserving.  Too arbritrary and subjective.  </p>
<p>The faith in peer review takes another hit.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeGene</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/more-on-beckwith-and-baylor/#comment-10105</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeGene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=614#comment-10105</guid>
		<description>So why was Beckwith denied tenure?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So why was Beckwith denied tenure?</p>
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		<title>By: Aagcobb</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/more-on-beckwith-and-baylor/#comment-10096</link>
		<dc:creator>Aagcobb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=614#comment-10096</guid>
		<description>bFast wrote &lt;blockquote&gt;It looks like the neo-Darwinists have a stronghold a Baylor. It seems that some of the biologists there don't want to be painted with the ID brush. We do live in a puzzling world. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not so puzzling at all.  Baylor isn't a seminary, and the biologists there are real scientists, just like at many other universities affiliated with churches, so they recognize pseudoscientific bs when they see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bFast wrote<br />
<blockquote>It looks like the neo-Darwinists have a stronghold a Baylor. It seems that some of the biologists there don&#039;t want to be painted with the ID brush. We do live in a puzzling world. </p></blockquote>
<p>Not so puzzling at all.  Baylor isn&#039;t a seminary, and the biologists there are real scientists, just like at many other universities affiliated with churches, so they recognize pseudoscientific bs when they see it.</p>
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		<title>By: Krauze</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/more-on-beckwith-and-baylor/#comment-10094</link>
		<dc:creator>Krauze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=614#comment-10094</guid>
		<description>Hi bFast,

&lt;em&gt;"As I have never met the man, I know that its possible that Beckwith is a real pain to be around once you get to know him, therefore justifying the claim of "lack of collegiality"."&lt;/em&gt;

Yes, and it's also possible that "lack of collegiality", like this &lt;a href="http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9583" rel="nofollow"&gt;this Baylor gradstudent&lt;/a&gt; explains, is "a code for unjustified discrimination or the practice of ruthless politics." Anything's possible.

&lt;em&gt;"Is there any chance that Baylor is dominated by Young Earth Creationists? I know that many YECs view anyone who does not interpret the Bible as they do to be heretics worthy of burning at the stake."&lt;/em&gt;

Again, anything's possible. To test this speculation, one need only look at other professors granted tenure at Baylor and see if they are all young earth creationists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi bFast,</p>
<p><em>&#034;As I have never met the man, I know that its possible that Beckwith is a real pain to be around once you get to know him, therefore justifying the claim of &#034;lack of collegiality&#034;.&#034;</em></p>
<p>Yes, and it&#039;s also possible that &#034;lack of collegiality&#034;, like this <a href="http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9583" rel="nofollow">this Baylor gradstudent</a> explains, is &#034;a code for unjustified discrimination or the practice of ruthless politics.&#034; Anything&#039;s possible.</p>
<p><em>&#034;Is there any chance that Baylor is dominated by Young Earth Creationists? I know that many YECs view anyone who does not interpret the Bible as they do to be heretics worthy of burning at the stake.&#034;</em></p>
<p>Again, anything&#039;s possible. To test this speculation, one need only look at other professors granted tenure at Baylor and see if they are all young earth creationists.</p>
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		<title>By: bFast</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/more-on-beckwith-and-baylor/#comment-10093</link>
		<dc:creator>bFast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/?p=614#comment-10093</guid>
		<description>I've been doing a little poking around on this topic.  I came up with the following link.
&lt;a href="http://www.arn.org/docs/dembski/wd_upicommentary1200.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;
here&lt;/a&gt;

It looks like the neo-Darwinists have a stronghold a Baylor.  It seems that some of the biologists there don't want to be painted with the ID brush.  We do live in a puzzling world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ve been doing a little poking around on this topic.  I came up with the following link.<br />
<a href="http://www.arn.org/docs/dembski/wd_upicommentary1200.htm" rel="nofollow"><br />
here</a></p>
<p>It looks like the neo-Darwinists have a stronghold a Baylor.  It seems that some of the biologists there don&#039;t want to be painted with the ID brush.  We do live in a puzzling world.</p>
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