Newton states that the uniform motion of the planets reveals an Intelligent Designer"¦

Newton's error beautifully illustrates the weakness of gap arguments. He thought that his law of gravitational attraction, left to itself, would render the solar system unstable, and that God therefore needed to intervene and override gravity on occasion in order to keep things running smoothly.

Oops.

I have been giving your blog some advertising. We have been talking about you starting here…
link

Now, about my service fees…

Take a look at this: Cosmological ID in 1744?

Newton states that the uniform motion of the planets reveals an Intelligent Designer"¦

However, the probability is not zero and, hence, the uniformity of planetary motion is not a necessary proof of an Intelligent Designer.
"¦.
There is another consideration. The two alternatives, Intelligent Design versus pure chance, are based on our inability to find a physical cause for the uniformity of planetary motion within Newton's system. However, other philosophers have hypothesized a fluid that transports the planets or at least regulates their motion; if true, that might explain the uniformity of planetary motion (rather than an Intelligent Designer or pure chance) and would be no more proof of God's existence than any other motion imposed on matter.

"¦.
Truly our perspective is limited to where we are; we cannot see far enough to appreciate the order and interconnectedness of things. If we could, we would undoubtedly find the marks of God's wisdom as well as His intelligence in its execution. But, given our limitations, let us not confuse the two attributes. For although an infinite intelligence necessarily brings with it wisdom, a finite intelligence may yet lack wisdom; and there is as much evidence showing that the universe is a soulless machine, as showing it to be the work of an Intelligent Designer.

Maybe I am. Maybe I am just providing counter spin to get people to think about it.

And thinking about things is good. It's just that fear is the mind-killer, at the bottom of everything wrong with human attempts to make for themselves a decent society with some staying power in the world. So when I see a lot of fear being expressed, I tend to see someone who is being ill-used by somebody else in service of this or that nefarious plan.

If you aren't afraid to look behind the curtain, you usually find that the fear-mongers are hardly ever afraid. They just want others to be, because it's the single most tried-and-true means to diminishment of freedom and human rights. It has always been thus.

Because PZ Myers isn't our government. I have no responsibility for monitoring what PZ Myers does or says. I do have a duty to hold our country accountable for its actions.

But your threshold for accountability is so pitifully low! From what you've said, it's like you consider silly slogan legislation of more than half a century ago to somehow be a violation of YOUR rights. It's not. It's the government violating its own charter just because it wanted to demonstrate the belief that the charter is violatable at governmental will. Nobody's been willing to foot the bill to sue the Treasury for violation of Amendment #1 in a general sense. And of course it's somewhat difficult to mount a case, since a case must have an issue, and the issue must demonstrate harm.

A past generation deciding to label money with a blasphemous God-slogan is decidedly dumb and DOES violate the letter and spirit of the first amendment. But it doesn't harm you, or violate your rights. Since you have no right not to see blasphemous God-slogans. Maybe if you claimed your atheism as a protected religion (there is precedent for that), you could claim harm in that your religion forbids you from handling any metal or paper with God-slogans on it. It might fly, and the SCOTUS would probably be quite relieved to get that issue dunked once and for all. While the US Treasury, its unaccountable unelected overlords of economic manipulation and all the Big Bankers in America would be more than delighted to use your win as an excuse to eliminate cash entirely.

"No man may buy or sell…" The fundamentalists would welcome yet another sign from heaven! Go for it if you can. No one will mind, though the rhetoric will be semi-amusing for awhile. As for me, if I ever think about it at all, I do kinda like that bit of amendment violating blasphemy. It's always a good tool when some street evangelist starts preaching at me while seeking a few bucks in to keep the ministry going. "Render unto Caesar…"

Looks to me like the only actual harm being done to anybody is being done to the credibility of the Christians who think having blasphemous God-slogans on money serves their cause. YMMV.

When PZ Myers, purporting to speak not just for science but for the 'New Atheists' Movement, publicly calls for the outlawing of religious practice as child abuse and the arrest of parents who home school their children, he's just exercising his right to free speech. He's broken no laws and violated no one's rights - including the rights of religious practitioners and home schoolers. They have no more right to not see or hear insulting things than you have.

Yet what he's advocating is a direct violation of Constitutional rights under color of law. Anyone and everyone who values their rights is thus free to be offended and free to speak out against it as strongly as they can. That's the way it works. In the public marketplace of ideas, the good ones fly while the bad ones sink. And if those ideas sink all the way into sedition (advocation of violent resistance or overthrow of the government), the people who speak them may pay a hefty price.

Revolution is sometimes the best idea (our founding fathers certainly thought so). But if that's what you advocate in public, you should be prepared to pay the price exacted by the power you seek to overthrow. That is courage, not fear. It doesn't whine and bemoan its lowly state, it aims directly at the heart of what's wrong and is entirely willing to stand its ground. If PZ Myers had power, I'd certainly expect him to be willing to put his life on the line. I'd even respect him for it, no matter how ill-conceived I think his ideas may be.

If he started whining and crying the moment he met with strong resistance from the power he seeks to usurp, I wouldn't bother to watch the news clips of him being frog-marched off to jail. Just another loudmouth coward who believed he had special status and can't handle finding out he's no better or freer than the rest of us. Cowardly little Hitlers are a dime a dozen in every generation. They're a nuisance, but if we pay them no mind they have no power.

I generally would rather do science.

Go for it!

You wrote…

I think you're being oversensitive.

Maybe I am. Maybe I am just providing counter spin to get people to think about it.

No one here has suggested arresting atheists or taking their children from them just because they speak about and practice their atheism. This is obviously not true of PZ Myers, is it? He's a scientist and a teacher and he's aiming at our children - is that supposed to be okay with us? Are we supposed not to notice? What in the world should make us believe that your fear of money and license plates (and other people's freedom) is a much more pressing concern? Why?

Because PZ Myers isn't our government. I have no responsibility for monitoring what PZ Myers does or says. I do have a duty to hold our country accountable for its actions.

Take a deep breath, assess the things most important to you in your life, do some serious reading about how things really work in the political world…

Actually I have been making my way through Penrose's 1100 page book and looking up quantum mechanics things on the internet.

I generally would rather do science.

I strongly disagree that an infringement of my constitutional right ""¦has not caused material harm."

I pay taxes. Lots of taxes.

Yeah, so do I. I also know how things actually work in the political world, which may explain why I don't get too upset by trifles. Fact is, you have no Constitutional rights unless you assert them, and they can only be asserted on appeal AFTER you've been convicted of a crime. Honest - I had the Attorney Generals in two states and Janet Reno, the Chief Justice of the Louisiana Supreme Court and a total of three ACLU case managers in three states tell me that about Amendment #4 of the US Constitution after my legal files were illegally seized sans warrant, searched, and held for 120 days so they were unavailable for a pending trial date in a very nasty wrongful death lawsuit against a crooked proxy of the federal government. Turns out you do NOT have a right to security of your person, papers and effects if you're not accused and convicted of a crime using illegally obtained evidence (and have a lawyer who bothers to bring it up on appeal). That's the way it works.

I was advised by all to sue for damages. But I already know that you'd better be willing to spend at least a quarter million of your own money and waste ten years of your life - so you'd better be darned mad. The same is true for all other reserved rights. They're violated with impunity under color of law a thousand times a day somewhere in this country. Nobody cares but lawyers, and then only if they get paid. Screw 'em. I'll stay out of their way if they stay out of mine.

If they get in my way, I'll certainly make life difficult for them for as long as I can keep it up, but my resources are slim after many battles. Mostly what I can do at this point is write extremely nasty letters full of legalese that sound really tough. Sometimes that works (like getting an insurer to pay on a claim). Sometimes it doesn't.

There's always some little Hitler with a badge or a 3-piece suit more than willing to violate your rights. They hardly ever get called on it. It's good to hope that humans may grow up someday, and it's good to work in that direction so long as you don't waste your life on it. I am not of the opinion that further limiting our rights, or abrogating our Constitution altogether, or even imposing the iron hand of tyranny will cure what ails us. We might see an honest politician someday (that's an oxymoron, son), but don't hold your breath.

To add insult to injury, this infringement, along with "one nation, under God", is being used to rationalize the continuation of the injustice by some notable people"¦.

Hahaha! That's absurd, TP! What other people say - even if they're politicians, and even if what they say is insulting, offensive or incredibly stupid - doesn't violate YOUR rights! First clause in Amendment #1. It even covers lies, if those lies aren't direct slander/libel and don't defraud you of money or property or life and limb. If they do, they're criminal acts falling under the Criminal Codes. Those depend a lot on where you live and how expensive your lawyer is.

You do know that YOU aren't required to actually recite the pledge, don't you? Nobody forces you to handle money either. You can always use checks or a credit card. They have no religious stuff on them unless that's what you order. They do carry the name of the bank though. None of it's real, it's just cheap metal, paper and plastic.

So why are we surprised when a board of education in a small town like Dover thinks it is perfectly ok to teach religious ideas in a public science class? (the "material harm" there was over a million dollars)

Nobody in Dover taught 'The Plan'. They were sued first by some of the parents they supposedly serve, then got soundly voted out of their positions before it ever got to trial. It cost the school board plenty, but that's what they get for being idiots. They'll be more careful in the future, and so will any other school board contemplating being idiots. That's a good thing. The system worked.

And did you miss the part where some states are requiring "In God, We Trust" be prominently posted in public schools?

Then I expect some parents will sue. If they do, they'll win. Heck, the mere threat should get the state legislature to intervene quickly. If nobody cares, what's it to ya? We had the 10 Commandments on the wall in most of my classrooms growing up. We managed to live through it.

Some states are putting it on license plates and giving the message preferential treatment by not charging for it.

Another thing that could easily challenged. I predict someone will, unless they classify it as a 'vanity' plate, in which case it's none of your business.

While I feel MikeGene isn't anywhere nearly as bad as some of the people I have quoted, I do think he might be engaging in some dangerous stereotyping with theism on one side and what he is arguing against on the other.

I think you're being oversensitive. I can guess that's because you haven't had your actual rights to life, liberty, etc. (including speech and conscience) violated in your life - your neighbors and the authorities have mostly left you alone. Good for you! But you can make a target of yourself if you really want to. I've managed it more than once.

Mike has chosen his battle, as I have and as you have. We speak freely here on the internet because it's easy - unless we run afoul of Criminal Codes or DHS nobody will hurt us. It also means that we can analyze for ourselves where we think the most threatiness is coming from, and attempt to deal with it in discourse so it never has to visit anybody in streets and homes. You are not required to agree with anybody here, and no one is required to agree with you.

No one here has suggested arresting atheists or taking their children from them just because they speak about and practice their atheism. This is obviously not true of PZ Myers, is it? He's a scientist and a teacher and he's aiming at our children - is that supposed to be okay with us? Are we supposed not to notice? What in the world should make us believe that your fear of money and license plates (and other people's freedom) is a much more pressing concern? Why?

Take a deep breath, assess the things most important to you in your life, do some serious reading about how things really work in the political world, and thank your lucky stars you live in a place where you can't get arrested or have your children taken from you just for speaking your mind or believing as you choose. I guarantee that if you do, the idea that people you disagree with have those very same rights won't bother you so much. §;o)

You wrote…

"In God We Trust" has not caused material harm to anybody.

I strongly disagree that an infringement of my constitutional right "…has not caused material harm."

I pay taxes. Lots of taxes.

To add insult to injury, this infringement, along with "one nation, under God", is being used to rationalize the continuation of the injustice by some notable people….

"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under." Ronald Reagan

"We are a nation conceived, born and nurtured by faith… Our faith is declared in our Constitution, on our currency and in our lives." Bob Dole

"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God." George H. Bush

"A declaration of God in the Pledge of Allegiance doesn't violate rights. As a matter of fact, it's a confirmation of the fact that we received our rights from God, as proclaimed in our Declaration of Independence." George W. Bush

So why are we surprised when a board of education in a small town like Dover thinks it is perfectly ok to teach religious ideas in a public science class? (the "material harm" there was over a million dollars)

And did you miss the part where some states are requiring "In God, We Trust" be prominently posted in public schools?

Some states are putting it on license plates and giving the message preferential treatment by not charging for it.

Sure, no "harm", I just need to be a good little atheist and realize I am not welcome in my own country because the majority says I am wrong to believe as I do.

P.S. In a vain attempt to explain why this is on topic….

While I feel MikeGene isn't anywhere nearly as bad as some of the people I have quoted, I do think he might be engaging in some dangerous stereotyping with theism on one side and what he is arguing against on the other.

Non-theists can and do accept the possibility of a telic universe.

While standing at the barricades, have you taken a look behind you lately? Remember those old artillery pieces they put in when we were too young to understand? "In God we Trust" and "one nation, under God" are very powerful propaganda tools and still quite functional.

Calm down, TP! The end of all things is not yet (Gandalf is riding an eagle). "In God We Trust" has not caused material harm to anybody. It was a reaction to the Red Scare of the infamous '50s, and if anybody rich enough to care wants to foot the bill for a challenge, it would succeed.

It's just filthy lucre. Belongs to Caesar, not God - Jesus told us that clearly. "One nation under God" is the same thing. This too shall pass, just as the good ol' Cold War did. If you can't afford to fight it, ignoring it works fine.

Did you notice how the Supreme Court decided a certain medical procedure was unacceptable regardless of the health and well being of the woman?

No big victory, just rhetorical posturing - spin and payback for favors. p-b abortions are vanishingly rare, almost 100% unnecessary, and where they are the only possible choice, doctors will make it or let the woman die. Letting people die happens thousands of times every day all across America. The law doesn't care and neither do politicians.

Abortion (and reliable birth control) wasn't invented in the 1970s when it was suddenly made "legal," you know. Or maybe you'd have to be an old lady to know that… trust me on this one.

And a little anecdote about a doctor refusing to give emergency contraception to a rape victim in the middle of her menstrual cycle. The link includes this little factoid, "Since 2005, 27 states introduced bills to widen refusal clauses. Four states are considering granting carte blanche refusal rights "” much like the law adopted by Mississippi in 2004, which allows any health care provider to refuse practically anything on moral grounds."

There have always been alternatives, it's access at issue and that's always been mostly a matter of will. You hear about the cases someone wants to make an issue of, but it's a mistake to assume these are generalizations. Doctors have been able to refuse the most basic of care ever since medicine was monopolized by for-profit insurers many decades ago. They don't have to deliver your baby, stitch your cuts, set your bones or give you any medicine for anything. Why, a woman bled to death of active neglect on the floor of an ER in California just last week. If you'd like a real reason to get incensed, go see "SICKO" - it opens in theaters this week.

The problems with American non-health care are a lot bigger than some loud-mouthed religios obsessing over someone else's sex life. And there are more important things that need doing about it too. If that's done, the rest will follow quite naturally.

I'm sorry, but from my view point, I see an army mobilizing on your side. And who knows what will happen if and when Hillary is elected president. My main fear is what will happen the pendulum swings back again four to eight years later.

LOL!!! Not a snowball's chance in hell. I've got a framed, personally signed letter on my wall right now from Bill and Hill, from back when I encouraged them not to abandon us while under the most outrageous duress from wannabe mind-tyrants (who have done some REAL damage over the last 6.5 years since stealing power, btw). Sometimes the lessons come hard, but so long as they're well-taught, we'll survive and be better for the trouble.

This whole Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton (-Bush, if they think they can get Jeb elected) dynastic dream is positively UN-American. It'll never work. No one but the bad guys want to see it, and their ratings are so low their show is being summarily cancelled out from under them as we speak. Satan was way more popular with a whole 33% when God kicked him out of heaven. If you and I ever see another Republican on top I'll certainly be surprised. Now we have a problem with the 'other guys' - junior classmen who forgot practically overnight why we put them where they are. This is what primaries are for, and the party system itself may be in need of an overhaul…

It's a long-term project, on both 'sides' of all these issues and non-issue spins. Keep your wits about you, counter the spin when you can, and don't EVER forget to vote whenever you get the chance. Register some friends, neighbors and acquaintances, drive 'em to the polls when the time comes if you have to. Just don't go off half-cocked. Choose your battles well, and we'll win our Constitution back. Everything else is just life and death on planet earth - same as it's always been. Our times are interesting - what a blessing! Wouldn't miss it for the world…

The trench warfare in the school issue is just that, trench warfare. And while the scientists have successfully repelled attacks in the courts, they are not on the offensive there. They are very much on the defense.

Excuse me? Who was it that filed suit - and WON - in Dover? What happened to Kansas? You seem awfully ready to declare defeat in skirmishes We the People already won, Big Time. Do you just enjoy indulging high blood pressure? It can't be good for you!

At best, scientists might get some mileage over global warming. While they might end up wasting some money and effort, I don't see what great damage they can cause.

Naw. They didn't get much mileage out of global cooling back when THAT was all the rage and we were supposed to all have frozen in the dark by now. Last I checked, we're still here. Try to remember that the real issues here are two-fold: 1. The funding game (that's what scientists play), and 2. Our ridiculous conspicuous consumption and apathy about fouling our planetary nest. The pollution issue is real whether scientists call it this or that in their quest for money. We should be addressing that in our own lives, every day, right now. Why wait for science to decide? They simply aren't equipped for it, and can't do anything anyway. WE can, so we must. Tread lightly on the earth…

Frankly, I fear we are going to get creamed and it won't matter which side started it.

Doesn't really matter. We all get creamed in the end no matter what we do or don't do. Take responsibility for yourself first, and live it like you mean it. That way when the dealing's done, you won't have too much to regret. In the Big Picture that's all that does count.

…lead by example, not by force. Inspiration changes more things for the better than threats. Etc., etc., insert sticky-sweet truism of choice here. See you on the other side! §;o)

You wrote…

For me it's all a matter of historical analysis and relative power distributions. Were those different from what they are in my generation (my time in time), I'd be right there on the barricades with the anti-theocrats fighting forced indoctrination in that metaphysics.

But that's not the actual situation in this day and age, here in the US of A.

…science continues to increase and expand its power in the modern world. It is, all things considered, the MOST powerful collective endeavor human beings ever conceived of, largely unrestricted by governments and laws. I like science a lot, and respect its power. That's why I consider the corruption in biology to be so dangerous. And that's why this is the barricade I choose to stand (Molotov cocktail in-hand).

While standing at the barricades, have you taken a look behind you lately? Remember those old artillery pieces they put in when we were too young to understand? "In God we Trust" and "one nation, under God" are very powerful propaganda tools and still quite functional. Did you notice how the Supreme Court decided a certain medical procedure was unacceptable regardless of the health and well being of the woman?

And a little anecdote about a doctor refusing to give emergency contraception to a rape victim in the middle of her menstrual cycle. The link includes this little factoid, "Since 2005, 27 states introduced bills to widen refusal clauses. Four states are considering granting carte blanche refusal rights "” much like the law adopted by Mississippi in 2004, which allows any health care provider to refuse practically anything on moral grounds."

I'm sorry, but from my view point, I see an army mobilizing on your side. And who knows what will happen if and when Hillary is elected president. My main fear is what will happen the pendulum swings back again four to eight years later.

What can Scientists do compared to what the morally righteous can do? The trench warfare in the school issue is just that, trench warfare. And while the scientists have successfully repelled attacks in the courts, they are not on the offensive there. They are very much on the defense.

At best, scientists might get some mileage over global warming. While they might end up wasting some money and effort, I don't see what great damage they can cause. Scientists have always provided an object for moral indignation by the torch carrying masses (e.g. Frankenstein). While you may want to blame the scientists for damage caused by this, I think it is misplaced.

I will gladly stand with you on this barricade and repel all comers when the new paradigm comes out. Frankly, I fear we are going to get creamed and it won't matter which side started it.

Bradford: Mycoplasma genitalium, without genomic repair genes,

Genes plural? You told me that you had determined that repair mechanisms were irreproducibly complex. Did you change your mind?

… would not generate, through variation and selection, genes required for such functions but, rather the species would undergo a steady decline in reproductive fitness.

Fitness? What happened to genomic decay?

I don't see how this tests any aspect of your hypothesis.