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	<title>Comments on: The next target: Librarians</title>
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	<link>http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/</link>
	<description>An independent blog about intelligent design</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: MikeGene</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138537</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeGene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138537</guid>
		<description>Isn't it interesting how so many of the ID critics want to control what &lt;em&gt;other people read&lt;/em&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#039;t it interesting how so many of the ID critics want to control what <em>other people read</em>?</p>
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		<title>By: Krauze</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138534</link>
		<dc:creator>Krauze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 07:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138534</guid>
		<description>At &lt;a href="http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2007/09/library_collect.html#comment-206395" rel="nofollow"&gt;The Panda's Thumb&lt;/a&gt;, a librarian is struggling with how to best keep ID material out of the hands of the innocent public.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Posted by Gerry L on September 11, 2007 8:50 PM

As both a librarian and a library patron, I struggle with the dilemma of checking out creationist/ID books. I certainly don't want to spend my money on them, but it can be useful to read them. And once I've checked one out, should I renew it again and again to keep it off the shelf and away from innocent eyes? Or would doing so increase the "circ stats" on the title and perhaps prompt the collection development people to acquire another copy?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What should we do without the critics to prevent us from dangerous information?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At <a href="http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2007/09/library_collect.html#comment-206395" rel="nofollow">The Panda&#039;s Thumb</a>, a librarian is struggling with how to best keep ID material out of the hands of the innocent public.</p>
<blockquote><p>Posted by Gerry L on September 11, 2007 8:50 PM</p>
<p>As both a librarian and a library patron, I struggle with the dilemma of checking out creationist/ID books. I certainly don&#039;t want to spend my money on them, but it can be useful to read them. And once I&#039;ve checked one out, should I renew it again and again to keep it off the shelf and away from innocent eyes? Or would doing so increase the &#034;circ stats&#034; on the title and perhaps prompt the collection development people to acquire another copy?</p></blockquote>
<p>What should we do without the critics to prevent us from dangerous information?</p>
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		<title>By: RogerRabbitt</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138406</link>
		<dc:creator>RogerRabbitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138406</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Placement of ID books within a science section also diminishes the amount of truly scientific books that can be displayed in any one science section, and thus limits the public's access to scientific knowledge. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

And following that logic, assuming there is no physical law of the universe that proscribes the limits of science sections vis a vis other sections, every other book in the other sections of the library has the same effect of limiting the public's access to scientific knowledge.  So, moving ID books elsewhere doesn'treally help.

Now while I don't mind saying that I have always had a certain fondness for The Cat in the Hat, and Green Eggs and Ham, I can now see that I was a victim of a well-funded PR campaign.  It is now clear that the Cat in the Hat was a ringleader in the War on Science.

Dr Seuss, SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Placement of ID books within a science section also diminishes the amount of truly scientific books that can be displayed in any one science section, and thus limits the public&#039;s access to scientific knowledge. </p></blockquote>
<p>And following that logic, assuming there is no physical law of the universe that proscribes the limits of science sections vis a vis other sections, every other book in the other sections of the library has the same effect of limiting the public&#039;s access to scientific knowledge.  So, moving ID books elsewhere doesn&#039;treally help.</p>
<p>Now while I don&#039;t mind saying that I have always had a certain fondness for The Cat in the Hat, and Green Eggs and Ham, I can now see that I was a victim of a well-funded PR campaign.  It is now clear that the Cat in the Hat was a ringleader in the War on Science.</p>
<p>Dr Seuss, SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: MikeGene</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138400</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeGene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 04:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138400</guid>
		<description>Hmmm.  "Taking a Stand for Science" apparently means sewing one of these one your sleeve:

&lt;img src="http://warriorlibrarian.com/PIX5/lib_police.jpg" alt="" /&gt;

Gotta run off to bed.  I'll sleep well knowing the Book Cops are on patrol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm.  &#034;Taking a Stand for Science&#034; apparently means sewing one of these one your sleeve:</p>
<p><img src="http://warriorlibrarian.com/PIX5/lib_police.jpg" alt="" /></p>
<p>Gotta run off to bed.  I&#039;ll sleep well knowing the Book Cops are on patrol.</p>
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		<title>By: thesciphishow</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138391</link>
		<dc:creator>thesciphishow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138391</guid>
		<description>The real irony of this is if they were serious about doing this and classifying ID books as not applicable in the science section, then they would need to move Origin of Species out of the science section as well. After all Darwin makes theological arguments in the book. 

Of course who would expect consistency from the idiots suggesting this sort of thing ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real irony of this is if they were serious about doing this and classifying ID books as not applicable in the science section, then they would need to move Origin of Species out of the science section as well. After all Darwin makes theological arguments in the book. </p>
<p>Of course who would expect consistency from the idiots suggesting this sort of thing ?</p>
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		<title>By: dimasok</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138390</link>
		<dc:creator>dimasok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138390</guid>
		<description>Yeah, scientists go too far sometimes. Besides, aren't people smart enough to figure out for themselves which version they prefer - science with ID or science without ID?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, scientists go too far sometimes. Besides, aren&#039;t people smart enough to figure out for themselves which version they prefer - science with ID or science without ID?</p>
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		<title>By: Krauze</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138371</link>
		<dc:creator>Krauze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138371</guid>
		<description>Hi Doug,

&lt;em&gt;"Do they have a complete definition of science that is accepted by all?"&lt;/em&gt;

They're using the Kitzmiller decision. Because, you know, whenever a judge rules on something, we should update all libraries accordingly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Doug,</p>
<p><em>&#034;Do they have a complete definition of science that is accepted by all?&#034;</em></p>
<p>They&#039;re using the Kitzmiller decision. Because, you know, whenever a judge rules on something, we should update all libraries accordingly.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138370</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138370</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Placement of ID books within a science section presupposes that ID is itself a science, and thus lends scientific credibility to a supernatural explanation of the world.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Data/observations always underdetermine the hypothesis, so what's the big deal?  Regardless if that hypothesis has supernatural or natural assumptions.  
They're sounding like positivists.  However, no logical connection exists between the data and the hypothesis.  
You try to shoehorn science into a mold like that and you in turn cause it to lose its power.  Substructures of the universe can't be directly observed - and since explanation of natural phenomena typically requires the utilitization of the theoretical entities (the assumption that our beliefs of these substructures are close to what they are in reality) many positivists in turn stated that science wasn't an explanatory discipline, that its main purpose was to describe.

Do they have a complete definition of science that is accepted by all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Placement of ID books within a science section presupposes that ID is itself a science, and thus lends scientific credibility to a supernatural explanation of the world.</p></blockquote>
<p>Data/observations always underdetermine the hypothesis, so what&#039;s the big deal?  Regardless if that hypothesis has supernatural or natural assumptions.<br />
They&#039;re sounding like positivists.  However, no logical connection exists between the data and the hypothesis.<br />
You try to shoehorn science into a mold like that and you in turn cause it to lose its power.  Substructures of the universe can&#039;t be directly observed - and since explanation of natural phenomena typically requires the utilitization of the theoretical entities (the assumption that our beliefs of these substructures are close to what they are in reality) many positivists in turn stated that science wasn&#039;t an explanatory discipline, that its main purpose was to describe.</p>
<p>Do they have a complete definition of science that is accepted by all?</p>
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		<title>By: DonaldM</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138366</link>
		<dc:creator>DonaldM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138366</guid>
		<description>Speaking of the placement and cataloging of books, I wonder where Mario Beauregard and Denyse O'Leary's &lt;i&gt;The Spiritual Brain: A Neuroscientist's Case for the Existence of the Soul &lt;/i&gt; will be placed.  It is, after all, all about science, but there are those unfortunate words 'spiritual' and 'soul' in the title.  Probably get shoved into the Eastern Mysticism section no doubt!! :razz:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of the placement and cataloging of books, I wonder where Mario Beauregard and Denyse O&#039;Leary&#039;s <i>The Spiritual Brain: A Neuroscientist&#039;s Case for the Existence of the Soul </i> will be placed.  It is, after all, all about science, but there are those unfortunate words &#039;spiritual&#039; and &#039;soul&#039; in the title.  Probably get shoved into the Eastern Mysticism section no doubt!! <img src='http://telicthoughts.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':razz:' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: DonaldM</title>
		<link>http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138365</link>
		<dc:creator>DonaldM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://telicthoughts.com/the-next-target-librarians/#comment-138365</guid>
		<description>I was at a Barnes &#38; Noble last night.  I found it amusing that Dembski's &lt;em&gt;No Free Lunch&lt;/em&gt; was in the Christianity section and Dawkins's &lt;em&gt;The God Delusion&lt;/em&gt; was in the Biology and Science section.  So, a book by a non-religious publisher, Rowan and Littlefield, with nary a religious term in the search terms on the copyright page gets placed in the Christianity section while a book that is total philosophical speculation (and most of that sheer clap-trap) with hardly any science gets placed in the Biology and Science section.  Go figure!:roll:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was at a Barnes &amp; Noble last night.  I found it amusing that Dembski&#039;s <em>No Free Lunch</em> was in the Christianity section and Dawkins&#039;s <em>The God Delusion</em> was in the Biology and Science section.  So, a book by a non-religious publisher, Rowan and Littlefield, with nary a religious term in the search terms on the copyright page gets placed in the Christianity section while a book that is total philosophical speculation (and most of that sheer clap-trap) with hardly any science gets placed in the Biology and Science section.  Go figure!:roll:</p>
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