Null
you are right harsh angry words that tend to oversimplify things should always be avoided, and where they are used should be correted asap. PZ hasn't done this I know.

My real beef about Joy's original comment was that she was trying to compare the death of man with a verbal outburst. Using the one to over inflate the seriousness of the other. I found this to be lacking in empathy to say the least.
As a soccer ref I know that there is a huge difference between being bad mouthed and being assaulted, but even that is a trite comparisson compared to the one Joy attempted to bring.

Mike I guess the violent murderous etc bit would be the creationist dude who stabbed someone to death"¦ seems to fit the bill"¦ No?

Nope, that doesn't fit. Read PZ's words:

They're violent, murderous bastards.

They is plural. Bastards is plural. Creatonist dude is not plural.

Try again.

Null nice start but the agenda still had to sneak in on the end. Wow how to spin a guy's death to make a case against PZ.

You could have given him at least a posts space between noting he had been slain and wow what a bad dude PZ is for pointing it out in a manner that is not nice.

I'm disappointed, but not surprised.

BUT however you cut it complaining about PZ's use of intemperant language over a story that involves the death of a man, rather than decrying the death of the man first and foremost is self serving and shallow. Just admit it. You are so right PZ's language is completely non-comparable to this death but you chose to use it as an avenue to link the two. This was an horrendous occurrence so stop trying to use this man's loss of life as a stick to beat PZ with.

Null nice start but the agenda still had to sneak in on the end. Wow how to spin a guy's death to make a case against PZ.

You could have given him at least a posts space between noting he had been slain and wow what a bad dude PZ is for pointing it out in a manner that is not nice.

Mind you, joy, do you think, if I looked, I could find a post of yours that did a little stereotyping?

Oh, no doubt you could. I do try to be careful, but sometimes the rhetoric gets out of hand and the frustration gets the better of us before we give up and just go take a walk.

DaveC:

Joy how about decrying the death at the the hands of a creationist of a guy who was picking fruit with his girlfriend.

How about decrying the death of a man at the hands of his friend after a dumb drunken spat? There is a link to the actual judge's report down around comment 100 in PZ's thread, and the situation he describes from evidence heard in court is nothing like PZ (and a few others) have portrayed.

Un-civil verses dead, may I suggest you get your upset-o-meter adjusted a tad.

Nope. Unless PZ Myers was present in that fruit-picker's campsite that night and participated in the brawl, his incivility is completely non-comparable to this particular homicide.

This violent scumbag was given three years for stabbing a man to death what is so hard about condemning him?

I wasn't the judge or the jury. But I did bother to read the judge's report, and thus know that what actually happened is not like PZ portrayed it, or how you are still portraying it. Would it hurt so much to avail yourself of what *is* known before shooting your mouth off with blanket condemnations of entire groups of others?

If all you serious ID folks don't won't to be associated with the religious loons, how about you won't condemn them when they do something that is so clearly wrong.

I condemn anyone who assaults anyone physically or otherwise in the name of creationism v ID v evolution, on any side. I also condemn mudslinging, incitements to hatred, and willful misrepresentation along with it - and I consider a fair chunk of what PZ posts to fit that bill.

That was easy for me. Is it easy for you? I have a feeling you won't be able to match the condemnation, but I'd love for you to prove me wrong.

Un-civil verses dead, may I suggest you get your upset-o-meter adjusted a tad.

Mike I guess the violent murderous etc bit would be the creationist dude who stabbed someone to death… seems to fit the bill… No?

If all you serious ID folks don't won't to be associated with the religious loons, how about you won't condemn them when they do something that is so clearly wrong. You lay down with dogs then you'll pick up their fleas.
This violent scumbag was given three years for stabbing a man to death what is so hard about condemning him?

Oh no you have gotta condemn the non lethal action of a blogger, some thing is arse about tit in your world!

How does my particular highlight of PZ's ridiculous statement extrapolate to a generalization?

Ah! As I said, I can do stereotyping too. I withdraw any suggestion that that particular comment of yours cast aspersions in general. I only thought that you were implying that this particular post of PZ Myers was a typical example of his general output. If you were not suggesting this, my apologies.

Mind you, joy, do you think, if I looked, I could find a post of yours that did a little stereotyping? I recall a while back in a comment at ARN you accused me of repeating "boilerplate" when I had posted a comment that I had written without help from anyone:smile:

I feel both PZ and Joy are unfairly extrapolating from the particular to the general.

No, I was very specific, citing a single example of someone who thinks hate speech works better than civil discourse, in direct contradiction of Musgraves' statement of what "science is about."

How does my particular highlight of PZ's ridiculous statement extrapolate to a generalization?

If PZ was to stop peddling stereotypes, he would gradually lose a huge chunk of his readers.

So would the crew over at UD. Dembski and O'Leary don't seem to have any tools left except petulant rants at materialists. And don't even get me started on Barry Arrington………….