Comments on: The Telic Thoughts Crew Has a Meeting http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/ An independent blog about intelligent design Fri, 09 Jan 2009 05:03:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Joy http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139274 Joy Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:46:21 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139274 TP: <blockquote>Ok Joy, explain it to me.</blockquote> It's not that difficult. Human beings are loathe to let go of their empirical nature - trusting their own sensory experience to tell them the nature of things. This will of course distribute on a bell curve, with PZ Myers at one end and Mother Teresa at the other, but as with all other issues of understanding 'big things', it's all about where you invest your faith. I'm a 'realist', FAPP. Even though I know none of it's real in the most basic of terms. This saves me from having to be either a mystic or a die-hard materialist. I can just take things as they come, for whatever they're worth. To me, and I'm the one who counts on that level, aren't I? We live, we die. Here and now, holding to the past and slipping into the future, until we're done. Then others get to do the same thing. Or not. That matters not a whit to any of us really (so I'm always suspicious when people start appealing to "The Children! Think of The Children!" when they're arguing for whatever THEY want to happen for themselves). At any rate, what's empirically real for us here where we live and die is all that ultimately matters, to anyone - including the die-hards like PZ. It's only those crazy physicists who give mystics a run for the money on esoteric, not-really-meaningful things. If you seek the True Nature Of Reality above and beyond all practical purposes and considerations, you're seeking the Holy Grail. Which can make you crazy, and everyone will laugh at you (because it doesn't really matter). Haven't you ever encountered a clear 'this-or-that' situation in real life, where you WANT this to happen, but aren't very surprised when that happens anyway? That's the turtle, and it's turtles all the way down. Mystics have God (by some or no name) to blame it on. Physicists blame it on multiverses. That's a psychological clinging to our normal and natural conception of what reality *is*, because it's all we've got and it's all that really matters. The escape clauses (God or multiverses) are sanity relief valves that sometimes get stuck in the open position due to high internal pressure, leading to asymmetrical collapse in the core. Next thing you know, you've a damned naked singularity to deal with. Meaning it's time to go home and kiss your wife, hug your kids. Or, as Vinnie the Knife is famous for saying, "Forget about it." Truth for ALL Churchillians and Chamberlainites on any side of any issue: Forcing knees to bend has never made anybody's little truths more true than they were when only one person believed it. What's real is real enough, FAPP. What doesn't really matter doesn't really matter. §;o) TP:

Ok Joy, explain it to me.

It's not that difficult. Human beings are loathe to let go of their empirical nature - trusting their own sensory experience to tell them the nature of things. This will of course distribute on a bell curve, with PZ Myers at one end and Mother Teresa at the other, but as with all other issues of understanding 'big things', it's all about where you invest your faith.

I'm a 'realist', FAPP. Even though I know none of it's real in the most basic of terms. This saves me from having to be either a mystic or a die-hard materialist. I can just take things as they come, for whatever they're worth. To me, and I'm the one who counts on that level, aren't I?

We live, we die. Here and now, holding to the past and slipping into the future, until we're done. Then others get to do the same thing. Or not. That matters not a whit to any of us really (so I'm always suspicious when people start appealing to "The Children! Think of The Children!" when they're arguing for whatever THEY want to happen for themselves). At any rate, what's empirically real for us here where we live and die is all that ultimately matters, to anyone - including the die-hards like PZ.

It's only those crazy physicists who give mystics a run for the money on esoteric, not-really-meaningful things. If you seek the True Nature Of Reality above and beyond all practical purposes and considerations, you're seeking the Holy Grail. Which can make you crazy, and everyone will laugh at you (because it doesn't really matter).

Haven't you ever encountered a clear 'this-or-that' situation in real life, where you WANT this to happen, but aren't very surprised when that happens anyway? That's the turtle, and it's turtles all the way down. Mystics have God (by some or no name) to blame it on. Physicists blame it on multiverses. That's a psychological clinging to our normal and natural conception of what reality *is*, because it's all we've got and it's all that really matters. The escape clauses (God or multiverses) are sanity relief valves that sometimes get stuck in the open position due to high internal pressure, leading to asymmetrical collapse in the core. Next thing you know, you've a damned naked singularity to deal with. Meaning it's time to go home and kiss your wife, hug your kids.

Or, as Vinnie the Knife is famous for saying, "Forget about it." Truth for ALL Churchillians and Chamberlainites on any side of any issue: Forcing knees to bend has never made anybody's little truths more true than they were when only one person believed it. What's real is real enough, FAPP. What doesn't really matter doesn't really matter.

§;o)

]]> By: Rock http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139271 Rock Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:20:44 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139271 The original demonstration (confirmation) of relativity theory was at Harvard University (I believe): Place a radiometric clock on the roof and one in the basement and compare how they keep time. The variance is explained by the difference in gravity. Oh, wait, that also demonstrartes Newton's theory of gravity! It varies as a constant function of distance. Nevermind. LOL (Btw, my brother designed an experiment to test realtivity theory in a Mars mission. He's a "rocket scientist" And Yes, we kind him about that.) The original demonstration (confirmation) of relativity theory was at Harvard University (I believe): Place a radiometric clock on the roof and one in the basement and compare how they keep time. The variance is explained by the difference in gravity.

Oh, wait, that also demonstrartes Newton's theory of gravity! It varies as a constant function of distance.

Nevermind. LOL

(Btw, my brother designed an experiment to test realtivity theory in a Mars mission. He's a "rocket scientist" And Yes, we kind him about that.)

]]> By: Thought Provoker http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139268 Thought Provoker Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:03:07 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139268 Ok Joy, explain it to me. (or anyone else if they have an idea) We have known for a long time (since before we were in High School) that mass is energy and energy is mass. E=mc^2 For decades High School science class has modified the conservation of mass to the conservation of mass AND energy. We KNOW mass isn't solid. We KNOW particles, at best, are packets of energy. General Relativity was proven (as much as science can prove anything) with two plane trips around the world in the 1970s. So explain the unexplainable... Why are physicists willing to embrace the Many Worlds interpretation? It isn't needed. It doesn't make sense. I am not even sure you need Penrose's quantum gravity. The universe is a wavefunction. Quantum paradoxes solved. QED. What am I missing? In case you are interested. I was trying to figure out how to make this more understandable. When I started putting things in terms I could have understood in 1972 (10th grade), using the knowledge available in 1972, It started sounding too obvious. Ok Joy, explain it to me.
(or anyone else if they have an idea)

We have known for a long time (since before we were in High School) that mass is energy and energy is mass.

E=mc^2

For decades High School science class has modified the conservation of mass to the conservation of mass AND energy. We KNOW mass isn't solid. We KNOW particles, at best, are packets of energy.

General Relativity was proven (as much as science can prove anything) with two plane trips around the world in the 1970s.

So explain the unexplainable…

Why are physicists willing to embrace the Many Worlds interpretation?

It isn't needed. It doesn't make sense.

I am not even sure you need Penrose's quantum gravity.

The universe is a wavefunction. Quantum paradoxes solved. QED.

What am I missing?

In case you are interested. I was trying to figure out how to make this more understandable. When I started putting things in terms I could have understood in 1972 (10th grade), using the knowledge available in 1972, It started sounding too obvious.

]]> By: keiths http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139201 keiths Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:31:09 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139201 Mike wrote: <blockquote>It should be coming out by late Nov. </blockquote> If that's true, it means I won <a href="http://telicthoughts.com/the-design-matrix-contest/" rel="nofollow">the contest</a>! w00t! <blockquote>keiths Says: March 12th, 2007 at 9:28 pm | December 31st :razz: Comment by keiths "” March 12, 2007 @ 9:28 pm</blockquote> Second closest is Aagcobb, at Sept. 30th. Mike wrote:

It should be coming out by late Nov.

If that's true, it means I won the contest! w00t!

keiths Says:
March 12th, 2007 at 9:28 pm |

December 31st :razz:

Comment by keiths "” March 12, 2007 @ 9:28 pm

Second closest is Aagcobb, at Sept. 30th.

]]> By: MikeGene http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139185 MikeGene Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:51:47 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139185 Hi Eric, It should be coming out by late Nov Hi Eric,

It should be coming out by late Nov

]]> By: Eric Anderson http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139182 Eric Anderson Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:09:08 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139182 When is that book coming out? When is that book coming out?

]]> By: Guts http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139170 Guts Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:29:32 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139170 Money does not talk, it just goes without saying. Money does not talk, it just goes without saying.

]]> By: Rock http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139168 Rock Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:21:48 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139168 With a $6800 a month income the chimp should be able to retain a lawyer. An investment councilor. A personal trainer. An expensive hooker, and still send his kids to private college. Money talks in the legal system. Even if chimps can't. (And $1.40/1 euro! Guess I'll be kissin' that European vacation goodbye. Hello Wild Animal Safari Park! LOL) With a $6800 a month income the chimp should be able to retain a lawyer. An investment councilor. A personal trainer. An expensive hooker, and still send his kids to private college. Money talks in the legal system. Even if chimps can't.

(And $1.40/1 euro! Guess I'll be kissin' that European vacation goodbye. Hello Wild Animal Safari Park! LOL)

]]> By: stunney http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139154 stunney Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:40:21 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139154 Why wasn't <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070927/ap_on_fe_st/chimp_challenge" rel="nofollow">Matthew Pan</a> invited? Why wasn't Matthew Pan invited?

]]> By: Guts http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139141 Guts Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:50:19 +0000 http://telicthoughts.com/the-telic-thoughts-crew-has-a-meeting/#comment-139141 Ahh after watching it a few times I didn't think it was that funny and kinda inappropriate. Ahh after watching it a few times I didn't think it was that funny and kinda inappropriate.

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