12 Responses to “Wannabe Free Thinkers”

1. TomG Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 6:21 am

   Maybe because Nietzsche, Marx, and Freud don't charge anything for their thoughts?

Comment by TomG — August 1, 2008 @ 6:21 am

2. Zachriel Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 8:31 am

   Bradford: Why is it that those who borrow 99% of their ideas from Plato, Augustine and Aquinas are "sheep"…

   while those who borrow 99% of their ideas from Nietzsche, Marx and Freud are "free thinkers"?

   freethinker, one who forms opinions on the basis of reason independently of authority.

   Hence, how we ascribe the term often depends on the prevailing orthodoxy. At one time, Aristotelians were the free-thinkers against the prevailing medieval view. Then they became the orthodoxy. At one time, Marxists were free-thinkers against the prevailing view of that time. Then they became the orthodoxy.

Comment by Zachriel — August 1, 2008 @ 8:31 am

3. Wonders For Oyarsa Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 9:49 am

   Freedom = independence from authority?

Comment by Wonders For Oyarsa — August 1, 2008 @ 9:49 am

4. Todd Berkebile Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 10:13 am

   Zachriel,

   While free thinking certainly implies forming an opinion independent of authority it most certainly does not imply being a contrarian. A free thinker wouldn't change his mind simply because his views have become commonly accepted. So calling anyone who holds a non-mainstream viewpoint a free thinker isn't correct. Really there should be no connection between the popularity of an idea and whether a free thinker would hold belief in that idea. It has more to do with the process of reaching the conclusion than what conclusion is reached.

   Free thinking is a natural antithesis to organized religion; organised religions are simply the codification of orthodoxy imposed by their authority. Its very heart is about following a prescribed path and any questioning of that path is often elevated to highest taboo (Jesus crackers, anyone?). The strict following of an orthodoxy based on the authority of some religion is a very sheep like behavior.

Comment by Todd Berkebile — August 1, 2008 @ 10:13 am

5. Zachriel Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 10:30 am

   Todd Berkebile: While free thinking certainly implies forming an opinion independent of authority it most certainly does not imply being a contrarian. A free thinker wouldn't change his mind simply because his views have become commonly accepted.

   Agreed.

   Todd Berkebile: So calling anyone who holds a non-mainstream viewpoint a free thinker isn't correct. Really there should be no connection between the popularity of an idea and whether a free thinker would hold belief in that idea.

   Just to clarify, my comment distinguished between a freethinker in ideal and as often ascribed by actual usage (with an eye to resolving the question of usage raised in the original post). We rarely use the term when referring to someone holding conventional views, even when those conventional views are arrived at through independent thought.

Comment by Zachriel — August 1, 2008 @ 10:30 am

6. Bradford Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 11:16 am

   Todd: Free thinking is a natural antithesis to organized religion; organised religions are simply the codification of orthodoxy imposed by their authority.

   Todd, orthodoxy exists everywhere- science, politics, education, cultural norms… The list is limted only by your imagination. Codifying is nothing more than writing down an existing consensus.

   Its very heart is about following a prescribed path and any questioning of that path is often elevated to highest taboo (Jesus crackers, anyone?).

   As if contraventions of non-religious orthodoxies do not entail their own taboos. Political correctness is about cultural taboos.

   The strict following of an orthodoxy based on the authority of some religion is a very sheep like behavior.

   The operative phrase is what a decision is based on. You can agree with an orthodox view because you find it plausible.

Comment by Bradford — August 1, 2008 @ 11:16 am

7. Thought Provoker Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 1:00 pm

   Hi Wonders For Oyarsa,

   You asked…

   Freedom = independence from authority?

   That you asked it in that way made me smile.

   Did you intend it to be rhetorical?

Comment by Thought Provoker — August 1, 2008 @ 1:00 pm

8. Thought Provoker Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 1:16 pm

   Hi Bradford et al,

   I suggest Free Thinkers have independent thoughts. They search for understanding and knowledge they can internalize.

   They think, therefore they are.

   They do not let other people do their thinking for them.

   Having been around during the 60's I have witnessed many people calling themselves "free thinkers" who were actually just conformists.

   So, how can one be sure if they are actually thinking freely or just taking the path of least resistance?

   One way is to question everything, including your most cherished beliefs. ESPECIALLY your most cherished beliefs. Present them to those who will challenge them. If you can't defend them, then maybe you don't really understand them.

   Oh yea, one more thing. Try to avoid surrounding yourself with like-minded people. Humans have the habit of presuming the feelings of contentment and Group Think ("consensus") means their beliefs are correct and don't need to be questioned.

Comment by Thought Provoker — August 1, 2008 @ 1:16 pm

9. chunkdz Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 2:13 pm

   Wonders For Oyarsa

   Freedom = independence from authority?

   Let's get right to the root of it, shall we?

Comment by chunkdz — August 1, 2008 @ 2:13 pm

10. chunkdz Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    TP
    

    One way is to question everything, including your most cherished beliefs. ESPECIALLY your most cherished beliefs. Present them to those who will challenge them. If you can't defend them, then maybe you don't really understand them.

    That's not free thinking, it's critical thinking.

Comment by chunkdz — August 1, 2008 @ 2:14 pm

11. Wonders For Oyarsa Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    Nope – not rhetorical at all. Unless freedom = anarchy, you will always have authority. The question is whether this authority is set up in such a way that helps people to flourish or whether it hinders them in some kind of tyranny.

Comment by Wonders For Oyarsa — August 1, 2008 @ 2:44 pm

12. Wonders For Oyarsa Says:
    August 1st, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    From David Hart's The Doors of the Sea:

    We are inclined (especially today) to think of freedom wholly in terms of arbitrary or pathetic volition, a potency made actual every time one chooses a particular course of action out from a variety of other possibilities. And obviously, for finite intellects and wills, this is the minimal form that liberty must assume; but it is also, just as obviously, a form of subordination and confinement. All possible choices are external to the will that chooses; they shape it from without, defining it even before it has chosen. Moreover, these possibilities are exclusive of one another: one makes a possible course of action real by rendering other courses of action impossible. And, as we all know, one can choose foolishly, or maliciously, or with a divided will. Freedom, so understood, would consist in no more than a certain kind of largely vacuous and limited potentiality dependent upon other limited and limiting potentialities.

    A higher understanding of human freedom, however, is inseparable from a definition of human nature. To be free is to be able to flourish as the kind of being one is, and so to attain the ontological good toward which one's nature is oriented; freedom is the unhindered realization of a complex nature in its proper end (natural and supernatural), and this is consummate liberty and happiness. The will that chooses poorly, then — through ignorance, maleficence, or corrupt desire — has not thereby become freer, but has further enslaved itself to those forces that prevent it from achieving its full expression.

    A far better formulation, methinks, than "independence from authority".

Comment by Wonders For Oyarsa — August 1, 2008 @ 3:08 pm