Another time dimension?
by MikeGeneNow just as we're getting to grips with time's weirdness, one daring physicist has dropped another bombshell. "There isn't just one dimension of time," says Itzhak Bars of the University of Southern California in Los Angeles. "There are two. One whole dimension has until now gone entirely unnoticed by us."….it gives the green light to the idea of time travel. If time is one-dimensional, like a straight line, the route linking the past, present and future is clearly defined. Adding another dimension transforms time into a two-dimensional plane, like a flat sheet of paper. On such a plane, the path between the past and future would loop back on itself, allowing you to travel back and forwards in time (see Diagram, page 39). That would permit all kinds of absurd situations, such as the famous grandfather paradox. In this scenario, you could go back and kill your grandfather before your mother was a twinkle in his eye, thereby preventing your own birth.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:05 am
I read another article about these ideas earlier this year at physorg.com.
Comment by keiths — October 11, 2007 @ 1:05 am
October 11th, 2007 at 5:36 am
I recently read an article entitled 'The Self and Time', by Howard Robinson, in the recently published Persons: Human and Divine, edited by Peter van Inwagen and Dean Zimmerman. I found myself intrigued by and in sympathy with much of its thrust. A brief excerpt:
[Ibid., p. 58]
Robinson argues for the notion that souls are not just in a sense 'not in space' (as Descartes), they're also 'not in time' if by time we mean the SIT, and adduces some pretty tight reasoning for this conclusion as part of a case for idealist metaphysics.
Comment by stunney — October 11, 2007 @ 5:36 am
October 11th, 2007 at 11:13 am
Uh, oh. TP was bound to find out about this sooner or later… §;o)
"Sideways in time" is what happens when there's no event horizon, so I'd suspect Bars' proposed experimental confirmation has something to do with particle physicists' confidence that they can produce and isolate singularities ('micro-holes'). Since a couple of these experiments have already begun and are ongoing, it's time to introduce the subject of time.
Worse, an orthogonal time dimension can be treated geometrically, just like space. Leading to the concept of "timelines" that will complicate Many Worlds even more hopelessly than they already are…
From the article:
It's all about 'degrees of freedom', and this is related to all those extra spatial dimensions needed to explain certain quantum phenomena - like tunneling. Bars says this one is related to the uncertainty factor. I suspect it's also related to the phenomenon of superposition.
TP - This complicates your "time circles." They become spirals, never closing. On this side of time, anyway. It also says something about particulate matter, which we already know isn't really particulate, and the apparent forward arrow of time we experience as tied to entropy.
Comment by Joy — October 11, 2007 @ 11:13 am
October 11th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Speaking of being a few quarks short of a proton"¦
Design theory is full of multi-dimensional times, absolute, relative, and extended (and delayed, LOL) times, discrete and discontinuous times, "rich-time" non-linear, integral, complex, and infinite time domains, and even time-independent states and time-reversals. Etc. And every one can exist in a design"¦ at the same time?!
Do we know something the physicists don't know?
Designers temporal manipulations indicate that time is not an "independent" variable (or much like anything traditional physics has said it is), but just another design variable, a controllable factor in the design and therefore a material factor, not some ethereal theoretical abstraction or "blackboard" or "background."
(And the only problem with the hypothesis of temporal symmetry is that all the observations are agin' it. LOL)
Comment by Rock — October 11, 2007 @ 11:30 am
October 11th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Maybe you can go back in time, but maybe it's "Read Only"
Comment by kornbelt888 — October 11, 2007 @ 1:32 pm
October 11th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Hi Joy,
You wrote…
As much as I would love to jump into this with both feet the timing is bad (pardon the pun).
We just got a large rush project that I need to focus on.
Joy, you have my permission to continue to relay how this impacts my hypotheses.
Everyone else, keeping doing science stuff!
Comment by Thought Provoker — October 11, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
October 11th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Rock:
Not sure what you're saying here, Rock. There is no "temporal symmetry" here in the 'big world' because here in the 'big world' there is entropy and a single arrow of time. When you get down to the quantum nitty-gritty, time is entirely non-directional. No one knows why.
What Bars suggests is that there's an 'extra' dimension of time way down in the super high-energy under-understory and all we can see are its effects. Sort of like gravity (all we see are effects). The effect he seems to have in mind as most testable is uncertainty.
TP:
I dunno. I'd have to do too much thinking to figure all this out right now. It all originates in the GR equations, including singularities (and what they hoped was Cosmic Censorship). Matti's 8-D model may work better for this, actually. Though even he was reluctant when I suggested an extra time dimension would explain more of what I was seeking explanation for (not ready to consider that, I guess). Let me get back to you.
Comment by Joy — October 11, 2007 @ 5:31 pm
October 11th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
When you get down to the quantum nitty-gritty, time is completely directional. That is what is observed.
(Not w/o exceptions, but that is what they are, exceptions.)
Comment by Rock — October 11, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
October 11th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Humbug! Stuff and nonsense! The present you've come to already assumes your past. If you went back to your past and did something, it would already be manifest in your present. On a biased note, since this ends up being an entirely deterministic situation, I rather disbelieve it's possible, and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Go ahead. Travel to the past. I'm waiting. Yeah, that's what I thought.
Comment by Charles Foljambe — October 11, 2007 @ 6:40 pm
October 11th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
So it"˜s true"¦
Comment by Good ID — October 11, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
October 11th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
Rock:
Forward or backward [indistinguishable, FAPP]? No sideways there…
Charles:
I just did it, Charles! What do I win? kornbelt888's right, you know. Past tense may be a read-only frame. Future's what we make of it. Now. §;o)
I once met an old guy in one of those 'hip' communities [Taos] back in 1980 who was trying like crazy to build a time machine. I told him time travel was easy as pie - just go. The deal is, he couldn't bring anything physical back with him, so he could never demonstrate he'd been there.
Rather surprised me that if knowledge alone was all he could hope to gain, he gave up his dream. Sad, kinda.
Comment by Joy — October 11, 2007 @ 9:18 pm
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