Dawkins and His Disciples
by MikeGeneYou can watch Richard Dawkins slumming in someone's basement below. The sound and video quality are pretty poor and what you'll see are a bunch of smug New Atheists obsessing about religion and religious people while complaining about their own status as the most persecuted minority in the world. All of this is done in an atmosphere where everyone is trying to be the smartest person in the room (the key word there is 'trying').
So what's noteworthy about this video?
First, you can pretend to be a fly on the wall and witness how the New Atheists strategize in their quest to evangelize the world. You'll hear them admitting the "good cop, bad cop" strategy, conspiracy theories, horror stories, and basically witness how the atheists come off just like the religious extremists they condemn. So the big question is this: What in the world is someone like Richard Dawkins doing there? Well, the video should make it clear that he is an activist/evangelist who merely postures as some Ambassador of Science. Is the leading scientist doing an experiment? Nope. Is the leading scientist teaching students about biology? Nope. He's in some basement peddling his book as part of a socio-political agenda while claiming to speak for Science.
Second, if you fast forward to about 50 minutes into the interview, Dawkins tells us he had lunch with three of the lawyers from the Dover case. He asked the lawyers about whether there is anything that can be done to protect children from their parents. The intellectual elites then spend ten minutes talking about religion as child abuse.
Take home message: Make War on Christmas, Tax the Churches, and Remove Kids from Religious Households. All in the name of Science.
November 5th, 2006 at 7:56 pm
Mike:
LOL! "War on Christmas" is never going to work in a certifiably capitalistic society where producers, wholesale and retail businesses count on Christmas for half or more of their entire annual income. Silliest thing anybody's come up with in a long time.
Taxing the churches is questionable given that the crooks in charge of churches aren't any more numerous than crooks in charge of corporations and/or government. Something we might discuss, but which isn't likely to happen any time soon. Dawkins is just jealous that we have no state religion. Tough titty.
And before any of these guys can pretend to authority on child abuse, they need to spend a few months working with the family court system, child welfare agencies, state hospitals and detention facilities (I'd suggest NC and FL, but CA is certainly notorious) first. So as to familiarize themselves with the real issues, as well as the state's very serious shortcomings as parent/guardian. THAT would be some science in action.
Whenever arrogant Englishmen come out loudly and publicly against Constitutionally established and legislatively affirmed rights of American citizenship, I want to put on some war paint and dump some Richard Dawkins books into Boston Harbor. §;o)
Comment by Joy — November 5, 2006 @ 7:56 pm
November 5th, 2006 at 9:13 pm
[...] Dawkins youtubing. Second, if you fast forward to about 50 minutes into the interview, Dawkins tells us he had lunch with three of the lawyers from the Dover case. He asked the lawyers about whether there is anything that can be done to protect children from their parents. The intellectual elites then spend ten minutes talking about religion as child abuse. [...]
Pingback by Darwiniana » Dawkins on YouTube — November 5, 2006 @ 9:13 pm
November 5th, 2006 at 9:30 pm
Just wondering what the difference would be between "New" and "Old" Atheists.
Comment by Bilbo — November 5, 2006 @ 9:30 pm
November 5th, 2006 at 9:39 pm
Hi Bilbo,
My best guess is that the New Atheists view themselves as agents of change. In other words, they're activists. They are no longer satisfied with debunking or complaining about theism. They view themselves as part of a socio-political movement that will progressively rid the world of religion. Why do you think someone like Dawkins is in some guy's basement being interviewed for some amateur radio program that reaches a few dozen people?
Comment by MikeGene — November 5, 2006 @ 9:39 pm
November 5th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
Do they give themselves the name "New Atheists" Or do others?
Comment by Bilbo — November 5, 2006 @ 9:48 pm
November 5th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
I think they gave it to themselves. Anyway, here's a good article on them.
Comment by MikeGene — November 5, 2006 @ 9:54 pm
November 5th, 2006 at 11:33 pm
This is just very odd. It's hard to express the strangeness. This world class scientist and intellect in the basement with these kids. At a time when more than ever, we need to develop respect for each other and our worldviews, we get this.
Comment by bj — November 5, 2006 @ 11:33 pm
November 6th, 2006 at 1:34 pm
bj,
In case you did not know, I am for treating atheists like human beings, deserving of the respect due them. Among the younger atheists that know me, I have a good reputation among them. One group at JMU was mentioned with me in the April 28, 2005 edition of Nature. You will very rarely here me vilify them as a group, and if I say derogatory remarks and use the word "atheist" it is usually in connection with the subgroup of "brights" not atheists as a whole.
Though I think atheist are wrong, I respect them as human beings. And truth be told, there are too many claiming to be theists who should be more open about their skepticism. I prefer people present themselves as they really are.
Comment by Salvador T. Cordova — November 6, 2006 @ 1:34 pm
November 6th, 2006 at 3:42 pm
Hello Salvador,
Actually, I do know your attitude from the general manner of your postings on the Internet. But, I do wonder if sometimes the Christian-Atheist web discussions get to be a mano a mano kind of competition, especially after you've done it for awhile. While I am generally interested in the Telic Thoughts "brand" of ID, I actually am a supporter of the goals that Christian ID wants to make against the materialism so rampant in our culture. I'm not terribly impressed with the performance to date or the target-public school classrooms. But, I would like to see the playing field leveled, especially in universities so that all views could be discussed with mutual respect. Hence, I think that manner of presentation is critical. No one philosophy is going to gain the upper hand in this country, and it's disastrous to try. We do have to learn to live together, and it seems like improvement is needed from all sides.
Comment by bj — November 6, 2006 @ 3:42 pm
November 6th, 2006 at 3:59 pm
I'm not entirely interested in telling my story. But I have admitted that I have a history I am disgusted with (but one that I struggle with and am still working on). It was because of Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular that I severed ties with some very dangerous folk and began to change everything about me.
It was scary…. but I deserved it. Old friends that hated me as much as my enemies and who were more than willing to act upon it. Enemies who hated me and knew that I know longer had the 'support' of my old crew; and who were quite happy to act up their wishes.
I know this personal story is only an ancedote from any other perspective (expect that of my wife…. old friends who became enemies… and enemies that became thrilled with my new standing) but it's quite real for me.
Comment by Doug — November 6, 2006 @ 3:59 pm
November 6th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
Yes, Doug,
I remember your revealing some aspects of your personal story in another thread, and I commented then how I was impressed and touched by your honesty.
Comment by bj — November 6, 2006 @ 4:10 pm
November 10th, 2006 at 3:51 pm
Given that MikeGene started this thread with a comment which ended:
I thought some of you might appreciate taking a look at an article which was posted on NewScientist's web site yesterday (but has Saturday's date):
Home-schooling special: Preach your children well
Whilst personally I am critical of the theology and politics of Patrick Henry College, I cannot help but wonder why one of the world's leading science journals feels the need to make an unprecedented attack on Christian families, tarring them all with the same brush. But then I remember two things – as is being discussed elsewhere on this list it is not the science of this debate which is driving several aspects of it but the politics. (A mistake being made by Christians and atheists alike!) Secondly, I wonder if Dawkins, whilst he was visiting the USA, dined with any of the staff at NewScientist and raised the same topics as did when he lunched with the three Dover trial lawyers?
It is interesting that on the same day as this article appears David Anderson on his British Centre for Science Education: Revealed blog posted an article highlighting that group's policy to target parents' rights to teach their own children – again all in the name of science.
My choice quote from the NewScientist:
Comment by Randall — November 10, 2006 @ 3:51 pm
November 10th, 2006 at 5:45 pm
Hello again, Randall! Thanks for the link to what's going on in Britain with the BCSE on this subject. Interestingly enough – almost as though they were all taking their talking points from the same script – PZ Myers has weighed in today on the same subject. Interestingly, he's getting quite a bit of flack for it from his own peanut gallery. We're an iconoclastic lot….
I trust that you know the most notable authoritarian manifestations of government that derive from both ends of the political spectrum bell curve. On the right is the statist ugliness known as fascism, and on the left the statist ugliness known as communism. There is so little effectual difference between the two (per restriction of freedom and mass murder of citizens) that they basically form the connected base of a light bulb shaped diagram. Liberty is right up there on the light-giving end of the bulb.
We're all familiar with the evils of fascism, communism and theocracy. The examples are graphic and recent. What we are not so familiar with per the "secularist" [i.e., Evangelical Atheist - EA] ambitions to rule the world is the fact that they're every bit as authoritarian as any other aberrational version of statism. A bit more of a reversion to the historic autocracy [a.k.a. aristocracy] that both fascism and communism tried hard to separate themselves from ideologically (in writing), but as evil as anything humans have ever come up with to expand privilege for the few at the expense of the many.
These wannabe mind-tyrants won't have much luck in this country. Our public schools are so bad that alternatives have a leg up on that fact alone, and we're rather notable for valuing our liberties way more than we value conformity and its requisite brainwashing. PZ's just doing his required duty as a propaganda mouthpiece for the EA hierarchy that funds his website (and strokes his ego). I don't know how successful BCSE will be in your neck of the woods, but I hope you hit them hard on common law recognition of individual liberty.
Good luck!
Comment by Joy — November 10, 2006 @ 5:45 pm
December 26th, 2006 at 9:18 pm
Man there sure are some dumb people commenting (joy), she'd know that there is more to the world then left and right, and that communism is not evil, nor technically is capitalism evil, its the actors within the system that are evil. Human beings. economic ideals cannot hurt anyone, people hurt others through division, ignorance, and incompetence.
Next unfortunately, dawkins is right.. being raised christian is abusive. You take a child and lie to it no matter which way you slice it, christianity was proven false long time ago and many times over by atheists, you can't have an omnipotent god that claims within his holy book that he can't ever tell a lie, and then try to expound "truth" through mythological stories, it's an oxymoron and contradiction.
The real funny part is for the non-fundamentalist ID'ist christians, if christ and adam evolved from a common ancestor, from whence comes sin? Go read some quotes from paul, and he unmistakably shatters the theory that the bible can be taken as mythology. Without adam, christ is meaningless, he died for what… ? No non-fundamentalist christian can answer that. Their faith is a sham, and I have a funny feeling Intelligent design will be used by the ruling classes in america to profit off the mass and keep the atheistic left from infiltrating capitalist idealogy with a better more equalized economic system, or at least reforms that benefit the poor, which the ruling class hates utterly… just look at walmart and the waltons daughter looking at spending 68 million dollars on a friggin painting… while 90+ percent of walmarts workers do not have adequate healthcare or any healthcare for their children. Don't you love US style capitalism?
Religion was the worst thing that ever happened to me, it ruined my life and I would have no qualms about eliminating religion completely, but I am sympathetic to the historical and evolutionary forces at work and why religion exists in the first place… its a slave religion or a religion of the oppressed, it was designed by the ruling classes and the priests to stabilize societies in times past… I understand religion and the psychological and evolutionary functions it serves having had a good education and a wide view of history, unlike dawkins and his ilk.
Comment by Frozen1 — December 26, 2006 @ 9:18 pm
December 27th, 2006 at 12:15 am
Ummm… and this guy is…
who?
Comment by Joy — December 27, 2006 @ 12:15 am