You wrote…

Whatever happened to your admonitions about shield bashing? C'mon TP. Let's do science- even if it is Marks doing it.

Marks can do the science. Marks can even describe his science on his independent web site. He just can't have Dembski on campus.

Your statement is just as applicable to Dembski's, DI's and your allegations against Baylor. If what they did is so wrong ""¦then take it to a prosecutor."

It is not illegal to deny funding but it is hypocritical for those who do so, and their cheerleaders as well, to complain about research results.

It turns out this is about a grant that is hardly bigger than those slated to pay for a Research Assistant. Which makes sense, since it is obvious it was for the primary purpose of paying for Dembski. It looks like there isn't a physical lab, just a web site. Now, it looks like the money trail leads to the Discovery Institute and probably back to Dembski himself.

Trails to the DI and Dembski? Horror of horrors.:shock: There is the matter of Marks- the principle player in this drama. Money just might have something to do with his role in this.

I understand you wish to give Dembski the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't do something that unethical, or do you?

Presumed innocense should be a quintessentially American approach don't you think?

Would you consider Dembski's actions ethical even if it turned out he set the whole thing up?

Is there something wrong with setting up a research effort?

Do you embrace his putting pepper on boxing gloves mentality as long as he has moral justification to do so?

Whatever happened to your admonitions about shield bashing? C'mon TP. Let's do science- even if it is Marks doing it.:wink:

I don't know if that's criminal, but it does seem designed to hide the trail.

Stealth is a survival stategy for IDists at this time. The real deception lies with critics who, as I've previously pointed out, will ask for the goods while at the same time doing what they can to quash funding, tenure and whatever else they can rationalize in the name of responding to the "ID movement."

If you have evidence of criminality then take it to a prosecutor.

I didn't say anything about criminality. It just occurred to me when I first read Dembski's chronology over at UD that I'd never heard of the Lifeworks foundation, and I started to wonder who they were. Turns out they're not the Tennessee arts patron one gets from a Google search, but rather something set up by a Biologic Institute employee. The BI was funded by the DI, and the LWF subsequently gave money back to the DI according to Andrea Bottaro at The Panda's Thumb. I don't know if that's criminal, but it does seem designed to hide the trail.

I believe the technical term for mutual funding operations of this sort is a "reach-around."

You wrote…

If you have evidence of criminality then take it to a prosecutor.

This is getting comical. Where is your sense of receprocity?

Your statement is just as applicable to Dembski's, DI's and your allegations against Baylor. If what they did is so wrong "…then take it to a prosecutor."

It turns out this is about a grant that is hardly bigger than those slated to pay for a Research Assistant. Which makes sense, since it is obvious it was for the primary purpose of paying for Dembski. It looks like there isn't a physical lab, just a web site. Now, it looks like the money trail leads to the Discovery Institute and probably back to Dembski himself.

I understand you wish to give Dembski the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't do something that unethical, or do you? Would you consider Dembski's actions ethical even if it turned out he set the whole thing up? Do you embrace his putting pepper on boxing gloves mentality as long as he has moral justification to do so?

This is the type of thing we have been discussion in my Guest Host thread titled The Ethics of Intelligent Design.

But if the Lifeworks foundation was basically a front group for the DI, then Baylor's president may have felt deceived. DI sets up Biologic Institute; Biologic Institute researcher becomes president and sole employee of Lifeworks foundation; LWF gives grant to Marks. Have I got that chronology right? Where does the Lifeworks foundation get its money from, in the end. Who funded the funder?

If you have evidence of criminality then take it to a prosecutor. If this is the usual tripe about the evil DI empire then find another place for it. Baylor's president did not mention being deceived. Unless he does your comments are speculative. The only reason there is a "concern" about money sourcing is the end purpose to which it was intended. Funds that might advance data favorable to ID are magnets for muckracking.

These answers are not a mystery to Baylor's adminstrators. The President of Baylor initially approved the grant and Mark's website was hosted by the university before the anonymous complaints.

But if the Lifeworks foundation was basically a front group for the DI, then Baylor's president may have felt deceived. DI sets up Biologic Institute; Biologic Institute researcher becomes president and sole employee of Lifeworks foundation; LWF gives grant to Marks. Have I got that chronology right? Where does the Lifeworks foundation get its money from, in the end. Who funded the funder?

Who provided the money? Why wasn't the website set up on the university's web? Who owns the domain? Why? What research was to be done?

These answers are not a mystery to Baylor's adminstrators. The President of Baylor initially approved the grant and Mark's website was hosted by the university before the anonymous complaints.

Officers of the university have fiduciary duties to the funders that include making sure there is no funny stuff going on in the school's name. Were I the auditor, and I tried to track down the funding on this grant, I might wonder whether I could make the assurances to the trustees, and to the federal government if there is any federal money on campus, that everything is on the up and up.

Who provided the money? Why wasn't the website set up on the university's web? Who owns the domain? Why? What research was to be done?

Are there any answers for those questions?

Indeed, there is even a journal dedicated to ID, Progress in Complexity, Information, and Design.

Indeed. Hey, what happened to that, anyway?